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  1. <- Have you read my blog?
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    Exclamation Quality of the Forum Posts


    I love www.seochat.com and think it's a great place for both newbies and experts to meet and discuss all matters pertaining to SEO. However, lately i have noticed a trend of people posting messages with little to no content, one-liners if you will, and their signatures are over 7 to 8 lines long.

    I see no problem with long signatures and links if the person warrants his posts with quality and content instead of repetitive comments that usually only consist of 3 to 7 words in length and offer no quality to seochat.com

    I think some people need to be spoken with and warned about their quality of posts. Lets get one thing straight.. I have no problem with seoguy's 4 line signature because he offers a landslide of information and quality to this forum. But some memeber who's posted 5 times with a 7 line signature and most comments are less than 7 lines long, it's obvious what is happening.

    Hexed

    PS - Am I alone on this? I don't feel signatures are the problem. I feel the problem is with the abusers of the system and should be dealt with on a one-on-one basis.
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    I am with you Hexed...
    Most of the new members think that they can freely promote their businesses and they gain lots of text links and PR. But this thought hurts the quality of SeoChat.

    2-4 months ago, SeoChat was really great place, there were really helpful threads. But now, i am reading only "When PR will be updated" questions and reading lots of signature lines rather than content. Hope all admins and moderators think about this very carefully...
  4. #3
  5. <- Have you read my blog?
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    Originally Posted by Kusadasi-Guy
    I am with you Hexed...
    Most of the new members think that they can freely promote their businesses and they gain lots of text links and PR. But this thought hurts the quality of SeoChat.
    I don't think the links are the problem. Let seochat share the wealth. I think the problem is with the people. If a newbie wants to post a one-liner about a certain question, fine, so be it. But if intermediate SEOs come online and post 7 redundant one-liners in a row with a 7 line signature, thats just not a fair trade. I don't like reading a book to get to the next post.

    2-4 months ago, SeoChat was really great place, there were really helpful threads. But now, i am reading only "When PR will be updated" questions and reading lots of signature lines rather than content. Hope all admins and moderators think about this very carefully...
    It's still a great place. With members like rustybrick, dazzlindonna, rz, seoguy, darrin, EGOL, joc, yourself, and many others (sorry just using a couple examples here or I'd go into an essay.. you know who you guys are), this forum is a wealth of information.

    Lets deal with the problem head on and speak to the abusing members specifly. I don't think limiting signatures is the way to go because in the end, it really does help us a lot and its a way to give us some benefit for helping others. I just think we need to use some good judgement about the quality and content of our posts.

    Hexed
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  7. web designer
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    i have always thought that a 'minimum posts' requirement to 'activate' the signature feature would be a good idea.
    like 100 posts.
    that requires a person to make a commitment to the forum before benefitting from sig links.

    or maybe newbies could be required to wash the cars of all of the senior members before getting signature privileges!

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    Thats a great idea Zoolander!
    But 100 is less i think and may cause more unsophisticated posts.
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  11. Supercalifragilistic
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    It's quality, not quantity. Sometimes a question can be answered with a single sentence or link. Especially if the link refers to a previous discussion on the same topic. There is no need to repeat a verbose answer to any FAQ IMO. That said, it is obvious where posts do not contribute anything meaningful to a discussion.

    I have seen a system employed on www.eng-tips.com's forums where members can vote for individual posts that they find useful. Posts with positive votes get stars by them to highlight the fact that members found them useful. All votes are tracked and members may only vote once per post. Abuse of the system should be easy to identify. The forum software aggregates positive votes for members and calculates a "Forum MVP" metric. I'm sure that something similar could be done here that allows members to vote for (or against?) the usefulness of a post. A metric could be calculated whereby members with a negative overall score lose signature privilages. This may be an extreme measure, but it's something to think about.
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    I think that zoolanders 100 post requirement would be the best thing to avoid posting for links. I don't think that short posts should be considered a bad thing, short conversation about different things in threads is something that not only should happen, it should be a good thing.

    http://forums.seochat.com/search-engine-optimization-28/gmail-new-drug-11001.html#post77590

    PK shoots out a link and I send appreciation back with a short message. Do you expect an article about my likes and dislikes about it? lol
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    Smile Do links on here really make that much of a difference


    I really don't see how even a lot of posts could really make a substantial impact on your PR and stuff. I know that the site is a PR 8 but are the individual posts ranked that high. I mean wouldn't someone have to do a lot of posting for it to matter. Maybe if someone is abusing this they should address it but just because someone is brief with their post doesn't mean their intentions are just to spam their business or get links on here. I post short posts all the time. I know my intentions are good. Either way I think its the administrators place to make that call.
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  17. Zen Master
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    I agree quality is falling at SEO Chat.

    There have been quite a few junk posts recently (mostly by off-shore "SEO companies") where the member posts a load of rubbish about a topic they are clearly clueless about. I think their motivation is primarily advertising their "business"

    Maybe the wisdom is lost in translation, but it's not stuff I like to see. This junk might mislead some of the newer members, and it makes the forum look shoddy.

    I don't have the answer. Iaiwa suggested that maybe Zoo would like to come back and join us. Otherwise how about stepping up the moderation - perhaps the odd PM to these people saying get your act together.

    I wouldn't like to loose my sig links, but it's plain to see what is going on with the sigs. Maybe a 1 link limit in the sig would be a good thing. SEO Guy does a 2 link limit in his forum which would be a good start, although it's a different issue from the junk posting.

    Definitely we can't do the whole WMW thing - I can never figure out what's going on there with their non-specific ramblings and frequent deleted posts.

    Action is required.



    <edit>
    Iaiwa says it better than me:
    I just get soooo tired when I se this stuff. Who does he think hes fooling? Since Zoos sharp pen is missing in the forum I hope you and others can set the record straight.
    </edit>
    Last edited by VORD; May 25th, 2004 at 12:06 PM.
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    EGOL
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    I think that the PR8 on home is drawing guestbook spammers like bugs to a porch light.

    Here are a couple ideas....

    I think that we need a chit chat or general forum because the google forum is drawing a lot of postings that are not relevant. People are just posting stuff there because it gets visibility. I've done it myself a time or two with questions because I could not decide where else to put it and I knew that it would get noticed in Google.

    Also, make a special forum for self promotion and service swapping... self promoters and traders are going to be in and out of here all of the time no matter what policies are.... so if a special place is made for that stuff then much of it will go there on its own and mods can move anything that should be there... and if possible indexing/PR passing from that forum should be blocked.

    Finally, I don't like seeing posts deleted or moved but if it is not in the proper place and a proper place exists then movement or deletion is a great thing to do. People will learn over time and respond. Also, once a spammer posting for visibility sees that his crap gets moved or deleted then he will stop stinking up the place. They key to this is a posted policy that is enforced and a user group that will support the mods instead of complaining.

    A couple more thoughts...

    Sig links.... If limits can be automatically regulated or regulated by hand after warning, I think that it would be a good idea. If somebody is coming here for the purpose of grubbing links then they will have a flock of them on every post... and post copiously. But, if a person can have just a couple sig links then the appeal to the guestbook spammers will be diminished.

    For a project like seochat to be successful the mods sometimes need courage that is larger than the egos of a few members... and the egos of the mods need to be smaller than seochat.

    I think that Seochat is wonderfully successful and that the mods and staff here have done a super job. For some of the questions that are being discussed here clear and public policies might be a worthwhile addition.
    Last edited by EGOL; May 25th, 2004 at 12:54 PM.
    * "It's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain
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    It is funny how this thread is going on. We are discussing many of these issues in the moderator forum.

    1) Anyone who sees a signature link that is wild, please PM me and I will take care of it.

    2) Please continue this thread and offer suggestions, we will implement new policy shortly based on the feedback and suggestions here.

    3) We do not want to alienate any of the members here, so your feedback is really needed. Please provide it so we can make somewhat of a democratic policy change here.

    4) Chit chat is huge here and we kind of need to save it for a special forum.

    5) Since this site received a PR8, it has been attracting spammers, so we need to do something about that.

    Keep the feedback coming!

    You guys are great and it is you who make this forum great.
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    Smile More thoughts on this


    Why not limit the length of sigs. On my site, I let people put their business in their sig line but I limit it to two lines of text. Or you could limit it to two links or something. Also if someone posts on my forums and their post is obvioulsy not relevant then I remove it. You would have to use good judgement on this but people follow the lead of others. If they see that everyone is getting away with this than they say hey why not. I think the requiring a certain amount of posts would just encourage senseless posting to get to that magic number. KWIM? I think any way you look at this its going to be a touchy situation.

    I also think a chit chat forum or something like that would be cool. I mean sometimes I know I post in the wrong place because I am not sure where to put it.
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  25. Wine Geek
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    I'm going to have to agree with many of the posts made here so far; while I'm not crazy about the idea of forcing 100 posts before links can be placed in signatures, it would probably help to deter many of the spammers. The only problem I see with this is that some people may use that magic number as a means to post multiple garbage messages, with the intent of hitting #100. Thus, some will continue to slip through the cracks.

    In addition to that policy, how about a moderator approval of a person, before links are accepted into the signature. I don't want the mods to have too much extra work, but if we are using the #100 limit as well, there should only be a few legitimate users a week that reach that point.

    Just some thoughts.

    Cygnus
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  27. Zen Master
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    Originally Posted by rustybrick
    Chit chat is huge here
    I like much of the chit chat. It adds fun to the forum and makes me want to come back for more. It's also good for networking. I've met a couple of people outside this forum that I wouldn't have been motivated to meet had there not been some personal content in their posts. Let's not make SEO Chat too serious. We can go to WMW if we prefer serious. I prefer SEO Chat.

    I'm pleased you are planning to reinstate the chat section where we can talk about whatever we want to. That was one of my favourite sections. I feel it was optimised out some time ago. SEO in preference to users is a bad thing. Check out Google's Webmaster Guidelines for more details.

    Chit Chat is not the problem. The problem is SPAM. mamainmichigan's words were enlightening.
    they see that everyone is getting away with this than they say hey why not
    I'm guessing experience with naughty children has helped here.

    Spam is the sort of thing it takes a human to identify. Google are very clever but they haven't managed it with computers so far.

    Moderation by humans has to be the key. Can we help as well? Can we make the triangle button beside the posts a bit less restrictive.
    This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.
    Can we add "report complete rubbish" as well? There are degrees of spam. I'd report obvious spam, but not the complete rubbish posts spam that is giving us the problem. The wording puts me off.

    The trick has to be a balance that maintains quality without making too much work for moderators. Setting an example as mm suggests has to be the key. Involving members will surely save some work on the part of moderators.

    The 100 posts thing is an irrelevance - it will only encourage 100 spam posts in quick succession that will be more effort to deal with. Let people spam at their own pace - easier to catch before they do too much damage.

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    Smile More thoughts


    Okay I don't know how difficult this would be so it might be a bad idea but maybe you could make it so the forums are premoderated or atleast premoderated for new members. I did this on one of my forums because it was constantly getting spam. This might be entirely too much work so if its a bad idea just ignore it. Or like the others you could make it where people have to get approval for a signature. On my site I just have to change their permissions or something so that might not be that difficult. What you could do to make it less troublesome is give everyone that is here now permission unless they violate the rules and then just start fresh with the new members. Just my thoughts.

    Other ideas, I think there should be board guidelines clearly posted. I am thinking you probably have them somewhere but if I haven't found them then I am guessing lots of others havent' either. In them I would put some clear cut examples of what you consider spam and inappropriate posts. On my boards I put several examples of this is spam, this is not spam. I know that might be overkill but some people can't seem to figure out what the difference is between networking and spamming.

    I think you are far too liberal here with what you allow. And that is coming from someone who is not heavy handed. Some of the posts here are obviously spam and nothing else. Extra work to get rid of them but definitely worth it. If you start enforcing this, I think it will take a while but people will eventually get the message.

    I love this site. I have a few other webmaster forums bookmarked that I do not go to. I used to read them all the time but this site is so much better. The people are helpful and they make room for people at all levels. I totally love this site and I have told everyone I know how much I like it here.
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