Page 2 - KWD experiment now underway

Just working up an appetite now Hmmm, do I start on the numbers or letters first?!

It appears it can have some impact. I thort it would not. Isn't that is what KWD is the amount of times the KW appears in the content of the text copy.

I am not in the slightest one way or the other commenting on its relative importance but it does seem to make a difference the amount of times keywords appear in the text copy. Are you not even a bit supprised that these results were ordered the same each day from highest instance of KWD to lowest?

Did you expect this result?

Having some impact isn't worth anything... how much impact is there?

The point of SEO is to use a common set of practices and by doing so rank web pages with certain degree of accuracy.

Why do you think so many people arrive here with the tale of "lost ranks"? Their common set of practices are fluxing - they are largely unimportant.

Tons of stuff will have a miniscle amount of impact -- but that isn't SEO... because you can't rank with accuracy using these miniscle properties...

The professional SEO's job then is to weed throught the crap and find only those things that have a measurable impact in a real environment... not just some impact in a testing non-viable-search query environment.

If you include all the other variables of weight for ranking KWD is so far down the list that you will only see "RANDOM RESULTS when attempting to observe KWD influences"... as I stated before you started this.

Search engines don't place any significant weight behind the value of text copy because this is the easiest thing to manipulate... and your experiment supports that conclusion as well... "if you only measure text copy words" the most words win... but in real results... 0 words can win and you rarely see any page that stuffs thousands of keywords at the top.

"THE LITTLE THINGS" in SEO are unimportant... and the sooner you learn that the better you will be at doing SEO.

Fair enough comment..

Sorry Rod, while I agree with the rest of your comments, I find it hard to take this one.

SEO is comprised of doing little things.

Putting in keywords within the <title> tag is a little thing - but does have a significant impact on search results.

Leaving the meta desc, snippets [as learnt from you only] can attract clicks from the SERPs and increase CTR. Fixing any nav issues to display snippets properly is a little thing - but we know it can affect your site's traffic and CTR.

Putting in keywords within <h1> and <h2> tags are little things - but it does have an impact.

Putting in ALTs within images is a little thing - but it's important.

Creating a sitemap is a little thing - but it helps in the user and spider navigation through your site.

Getting a link from a relevant site is a little thing - but every link counts.

There are so many things that seem little but does have an impact in your site's organic ranks.

How much impact?? Impossible to gauge as you cannot separate the value of a single variable from the rest.

Though I personally don't believe in the theory of KWD [but I still offered help for this test because other members wanted it] and I also don't believe that in competitive sectors you can move up by a single rank by increasing your keyword density [I personally have tested this] but mentioning the keyword at least once can help Google judge the relevance of the page to the targeted keywords...of course the anchors of the backlinks to the page count more.

So IMHO, SEO is comprised of doing all those little things which in turn have a combined impact on your site's organic ranks.

Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

I guess this post is pointless now... since the threads were deleted.

IMHO experiments should NEVER be deleted.

... what's the point of a forum that shows nothing but "conclusions" based on deleted results?



BTW... keep an eye on your results over the next few weeks or so...

1. I've added the phrase as a page title on 6 different domains using H1 - H6 Tags in different ones (the title only).

2. I've added your phrase to a number of title elements ONLY where the phrase is to the right of center [at least 116 characters into the title element]... making these title elements extremely weak.

3. I've used the phrase in /url.html where the page is completely void of text & code and the link anchor to the page is 2003 (I'm interested in seeing where this one falls myself... I guarantee it won't be last)

4. I picked up the domain name with the phrase in it and dot.info and will add a blog with totally unrelated text copy, titles, links etc.

...we can play around with this showing a little of everything - even buy some links to see how each interact with a major contributor for ordered ranks.

I hammer away at people when they offer advice for many different reasons... some tested advice, others misguided, and still others -- like here... are attempting to prove something but the premise is wrong to begin with AND you never know who is reading or how much they will actually absorb...

While the intentions of this experiment were meant as "good intentions" your conclusion deeply concerns me...



I've repeated analogies over and over again about "ants" - and your conclusion isn't based on sound evidence.

You've shown Google reads text copy and will include that in results... but you didn't show that KWD is a ranking factor... and even if it is it is a non-contributing factor -- particularly in today's ranking world where supplemental results exists...

Also not considered in "fresh" - all new pages are fresh results and will automatically gain a boost in results (if a real search terms against real results... and usually slide down in a few days to where they would normally reside without a fresh boost).

I agree it is a shame that the last threads were deleated as what you have done would be very interesting to see the effect of these things. Maybee they can be reposted. I do accept your points. Maybee my conclusions were to hasty.

Thank you for the input. I s'pose I was just to astonished and jumped to a conclusion. I expected the experiemnt to show the amount of times the word appeared to have no effect.

Still I am learning from this and that is good.

hmmm... maybe we are thinking of different homonyms [words that sound the same but have different meanings].

BIG THINGS IN SEO

Using a phrase in a link anchors to a domain is a BIG THING in SEO... a SEO that doesn't do this... tends not to rank well for anything but the most obscure phrases.

Using a phrase in a title element of a page in a domain is a BIG THING in SEO... a SEO that doesn't do this... tends not to rank well for anything but the most obscure phrases.

Using a phrase in a page title of a page in a domain is a BIG THING in SEO... a SEO that doesn't do this... tends not to rank well for anything but the most obscure phrases.

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Using a phrase in internal navigation of domain is a Moderate Thing in SEO... a SEO that doesn't do this... probably doesn't have much to worry about IF the previous mentioned developments occur.

Using a phrase in url of domain [also the domain name itself] is a Moderate Thing in SEO... a SEO that doesn't do this... probably doesn't have much to worry about IF the previous mentioned developments occur.
____________________

If you concern yourself with [my version of LITTLE THINGS] like:

Meta Description, Meta Keyword, Other Meta Tags, Comment Tags, Keyword Density, Title Attribute, Alt Tags [on non-link images], etc. are directly related to SEO you are wasting time and money.

So to reiterate... THE LIITLE THINGS like "DETAILS" are extremely important in SEO... but the LITTLE THINGS... that you gotta get rid of all the BIG THINGS to actually see something... are destined for supplemental results and as Google says:

It's off the beaten path [not overly important to primary ranks]

I have restored all the KWD test threads.

Thanks a lot for the explanation Rod!

Just so you know... my comment are not meant to belittle [I realize some people will see them that way]... I write for the reader [lurker] ... for the person that won't comment, won't disagree, won't debate... they'll just accept a test was done, conclusions made and they should follow that as informed advice.

It takes alot of guts to open yourself up to public scrutiny... many would write something if someone disagrees, they'll start a sock-puppet account:

1. to post support on their view, or

2. get as far away from the discussion as possible.

It's obvious to me though... I gotta put up or shut up... so we'll run with your lead over the coming months and compare all variables individually [including my Meta Description pet peeve] and see how they fair up.

Never thought they were... I am glad I have spurred you into action and am looking forward to the results of the on-going experiment. I really do love this forum -fun and learning at the same time...

I would request you to always put up.

All your advices are logical and sound....so don't ever shut up...we are constantly learning new things and rectifying misguided thoughts from you.

Btw,


Does putting the title element within H1 tags increase the weightage of the keywords contained in it??

This concept is totally new to me and would request you to shed some light on it.

Thanks!

Not sure I understand what you are driving at?

I think [you think] that I meant <h1><title></title></h1> or something like that... if so... no.

<title> element is a <header> thing and <h1> is a <body> thing.

all uses that I added contain only a single variable (using the term) - this way we can see how each compare "ordered rank-wise" against straight body text.

The <h1> through <h6> are basically the same as the term used only once in KWD but I would think each of these will rank above the text copy 'only'.

aha...so your statement of "I've added the phrase as a page title on 6 different domains using H1 - H6 Tags in different ones (the title only)." either misguided me or I was dumb enough not to understand it