SEO on a Pay for Performance Basis

Hi All

I am in the process of setting up a web design and online marketing company (about 80% done!).
I have all of my SEO services and prices sorted. I have done a lot of SEO freelance work in the past and had a good bit of success.

I was asked recently, by someone who posted on this site incidently, if I would consider doing some SEO work on a Pay for Performance basis.
He suggested that he pay me a fee per refferal. I said that as I could get 1000's of untargetted visitors and make my self loads of money if I was not honest
or get some very targeted visitors that convert into sales, but earn very little by being honsest (which I am) it would not make sense unless I asked for a very high
per refferal fee. This would then be unacceptable to the customer.

I was wondering does anyone do SEO on a perfromance basis? What is your take on it?

Many Thanks

Trevor Stolber

Why not charge a CPM (cost-per-thousand) rate like in advertising??

Charge per thousand additional users that you get and only get paid if that number sticks for months. If it falls so does your profit therefore you got a project to keep you on your toes AND gives you a reason to get more traffic.

Or get paid per goal reached.

Hi, Thanks for the reply.

Sounds reasonable, although it is still open to abuse via untargetted traffic. This also assumes that visitors sign up.
I suppose it could be done per sale but then I would have to rely on the client's honesty, unless of course I had access to their server logs / stats.

Anyone have a different modelfor doing SEO on a pay for performance basis? Maybee such as SERPs positioning for a set time period?
#1 for one month = $x
#2 for one month = $y
#3 for one month = $z

although as a lot of people said the title and description greatly effect actual CTR within the top 5 although obviously #1 is most desireable.

My company gets paid based on performance, but rather than by referrals, we get it for each sale. This system can work well, but you need full creative and structural control over not just the SEO, but the entire site - a lousy site means a lousy conversion rate. You also need to have an exceptionally good relationship with the client. It's not easy, but it can be very rewarding.

Hi

I am definately interested in working with you and I totaly understand your concearns.
Let me first say that for very quick results PPC (Pay Per Click) can be very good. this can either be used as a fill in or as a permanent solution along side an SEO effort. In any event, there are no real ways (to my knowledge) of reducing the risk that everyone takes when hiring an SEO. What I would say is that I preffer to be very open and tell people what I am doing, this way you fell better about knowing whats going on and I fell happy that you are satisfied with my work.

If you are ver unsure about it you can always come on this forum and ask for opinions on what the SEO is doing. I will send you a PM regarding SEO and my current situation.

Thanks

Trevor Stolber

I was going to suggest ultilizing an affiliate tracking system, which is the type of relationship in a way that randfish suggests. Since I help companies set up affiliate programs, that was my 1st thought.

The downside to doing this for the SEM is that yes, your money will depend to a large degree on conversions which may be out of your control. (Are the prices competitive? Is the cart optimized and all the other things that go into good conversions.)

I used to do SEO for a living but would never do it on a CPA basis (if I were still doing SEO) for 3 reasons. 1) See above paragraph re conversions. 2) Once the clients set up tracking they may want to open an affiliate program and invite everyone. 3) If you are doing the SEO on their site, sales can take awhile to close and build up. So you do all the work on the front end. By the time the sales start rolling in what's to prevent them from cutting you out. They get to keep all the traffic and the hard work you did.

So If you did it on a CPA basis, if it were me, I would only do the SEO on my site and drive traffic to them, so you own and control the traffic. If they ever don't pay, then just switch the links to a competitors affiliate program so you still get paid for your efforts.

Interesting enough this occur twice to me over the years.

As I believe that businesses can only make informed decisions on their Internet business by "being informed" I share knowledge, skill and information at whatever level they can retain.

That said, the inherent risk of making a better relationship is investing with the potential of losing that investment.

In both instances, these were struggling companies that are now a million and a multi-million dollar operations.

When you (as a client) have nothing - it seems logical to risk little... unfortunately - business is business and you ask no less of your customers "take the risk" - I am trustworthy.

Lessons learned - he who takes the most risk - get the most return... and you will find the "best" you can find will protect themselves explicitly and leave you with the same dime you started with when you (possibly) attempt [later in the relationship] to assume the risk was all yours.

Hi

Thats not a bad Idea at all about driving traffic to another site and then sending visitors to the customers site.
I guess you would have to start voer again but sometimes that is benneficial!

Thanks for that input!

I guess the main thing is to make sure you already have a good relationship with the customer before you attempt this but you are absolutely right about the risk taking aswell!

This assumes that you "do" drive traffic to the first site, and

then assumes the visitors wish to go elsewhere. or if the first site gets the warm lead, that the warm lead is in fact turned into a customer who unlike the first the original client is willing take the risk.



There is a number of assumptions here as well... here's a good one. The projected SEO (the client fronting as an SEO) gains a few SEO contracts and outsources to the real SEO.

The real SEO does all the initial work and two clients for whatever reason decide "not interested" "breaches contract" (refused to pay or wishes a refund).

So in this prestine relationship - who chases the client to get paid, who is the losing entity if the client will not pay or wants that refund, or initiates a chargeback, or the need to go to court?

If I was the Outsourced SEO and the initial client managed the contract relationship (thus we will say the project manager) he would have contracts with two parties - the end client and the oursourced SEO... and if the end client runs out... I still get paid - unless the project manager breaches his contract.

It's not a clear cut WIN WIN situation and a good relationship (with a hand shake) and without a ton of provisions - is doomed to fail in most incidences.