Page 2 - SEO Coaching & Training

loves i thought you were in India? In this case your price points may change slightly dependent on your overhead and your local clients.

Ohh I kind of forgot about this thread..Ok back again..

The Reality Check has got some valid points to consider..



What kind of solution would you suggest for this? Perhaps a free trial or some kind of money back just in case its a total failure? I am ready for that, I have one enrollment starting next week and around 10 Leads..So I guess I have to decide on this real fast.



Errr.. not comparing myself with those courses.. its actually a localised project, and preferably offline.. Thats why, the certification thing will be from some top notch Software company which will be atleast of some use to the one's who complete it, and will get regional benefits and jobs as such.. not to forget, I am targetting freshers and college grads..



You are right...! Local Offline (as of now) is whats my aim Expansions will happen after I analyse the ROI's and Profits charts atleast after 2 months..As long as I am able to stay above the breakeven points .. I think I can go on with it..

What would be the Ideal Certification be.. Ummm may be I should get autographs of all you guys and stick them up on a nice glazed paper with shiny pics and a hologram of authenticity with a Red Ribbon.. I guess that would be the best Idea to hang on with let me plan something with this as well..

You need a "clout angle" -- a 3rd party that has exposure for being a trusted source of information to a growth uneducated community (that wishes to learn).

A prime example would be SEOChat. Industry related and within the US. Unforunately, that isn't all that simple either.

It's easy enough to write a set of lesson plans, marketing pages, and grand open specials etc. the problem however is competing "dis-information" and there is tons of it.

The moment you start educating people is the moment the flood gates open for the pile of crap - old obsolete SEO dogma we walk in and command you...

I'll need to address "what not to do", "what's useless", "what's pure speculation and no way of proving it fact or fiction"... and why...?

Because that's the competing force against your course and if you don't address it upfront so your student population can ignore the crap it will become "fact" within your course over time... sort-of unwritten rules that you won't teach because they are the "power tips" (even though it pure crap).

To cure that you MUST HAVE industry clout... and you can't get that unfortunately in India. You can become a powerhouse within your own borders but without backing from a marjor player(s) in the US - it ain't gonna happen.

Can I be your disciple please and you be my Idol/Hero ?

Man those are some thoughts worth engraving everywhere...



Thats not crap at all, infact thats a really powerful Idea..Anyone can teach "What to do", but not everyone can focus on "What not to do"..And with these the first thing that comes to my mind is your Meta Descriptions post and the relation with CTR.. many believe it works.. Even I did.. But then checked out your site pages that you posted and tried it on my pages as well to see almost null effect..

That was like one thing not everyone would like to accept, but slowly n gradully they have to accept it.. Nice Idea btw..

Regarding Clout Angle, The point is again very valid, but how will I get a powerful backup from majors in the industry? The only thing that comes to my mind is to get everyone signed up here at SEOChat, and set them free to ask and learn PLUS provide them pratical on-hands experience with everything they read and its impact on SE's..

I think I am not even anything closer to what its called famous, So I think I would have to plead in front of the SEO Majors at The US to back me up that can take up around an year or even more..or may be since you gave suggestion, you may also have an Idea as to how that process can be simplified?

Yet again Thanks a ton for those wonderful suggestions and and sparing out time to analyse as to where am heading.. Trust me you will have a huge Fan following Rod.. you got a real deep insight of the SEO Industry..

I started writing this a while ago but I hate formal documents so I finally gave up but some contributions for your:

What Doesn’t Help in any Meaningful Way

Meta Tags
Meta Tags allowed authors to specify machine-readable metadata about their HTML documents and other network-accessible resources. At one time search engines used this machine-readable metadata to aid in categorizing and organizing web pages of similar topics. This then became one of the SEO optimization tasks — to ensure a client’s web site pages each provided a set of Meta Tags that enhanced the chances of its client to be organized higher in the search engine’s categorization processes.

Meta Description
<meta content=”Your page description here.” http-equiv=”Description” />

At one time Meta Description had some empirical value for ranking in search engines. Today this is token optimization. Even when considering the most obscure search phrases that do offer viable visitation from potential customers a Meta Description will no more aid you to a better ranked position than blowing with the wind (in a sail boat) and accepting that your effort actually had some impact to increasing your sailboat’s speed – it doesn’t… nor does Meta Description.

In a controlled environment I’m sure that someone can show an impact does occur but in practical application it is merely wishful thinking. It’s important to realize that the information contained in the Meta Description is used by search engines as contextual information for the page but is not used as ranking criteria in any meaningful capacity.

Others argue that while Meta Description does not aid to better ranks it does allow you to control what search engines display as a description for your web pages and an appealing description is better for producing clicks.

However, it’s only effective when the term being searched for is included in your Meta Description. This then is a major concern since most web pages rank well for a volume of different terms. While your Meta Description may target the most often used terms it is a fact that terms generally considered much longer and more obscure are often far more likely to produce a sale.

Therefore the benefits of more appealing descriptions tend to go to those searchers that are far less likely to desire anything specific from you and at the expense of those searchers that desire the most from you.

Using this article as an example of a page a Meta Description (if used) might be “List of on page optimization techniques. Features practice guidance of do and don’t tips for better ranks.”

This page could however rank for the terms of Meta Tags or Meta Description yet because the Meta Description doesn’t contain these terms the page content itself is snippet in these instances.

Without any understanding of how the search engine snippet page content or how to actually make these snippets more appealing over 55% of all search engine users that receive a description for this page (and page) will receive “un-optimized content”.

How then can one truly call themselves an optimizer “if” they are suck on the premise of using Meta Description as part of their repertoire so they don’t need to optimize page content?

Meta Keyword
<meta content=”Your page related keywords here.” http-equiv=”Keywords” />

Meta Keyword is worthless to ranking enhancement and has been for quite some time. While some optimizers suggest adding Meta Keyword so you can easily track your targeted phrases this again is pointless as 55% of all traffic to a web site is based on queries that are 4- or 5-word phrases or more.

Statistically speaking it is a common occurrence that a 100-page, content rich website will rank easily for 10,000 separate phrases or an approximate 100 different phrases per page. The fact that phrase for phrase the longer the phrase in words the better or easier the sale potential is suggests that no one is really interested in keeping track of targeted phrases.

Meta Robots
<meta name=”Robots” content=”index, follow” />

Meta Robots are categorically not needed on a web page unless that page is not to be included in search engines or the author does not wish search engines to follow the links on the page.

The common uses of index, follow, or all are deprecated since search engines do that anyway.

Meta Revisit-After
<meta name=”Revisit-After” content=”X Days” />

Meta Revisit has deprecated.

While a vast assortment of other Meta Tags exists the previously mentioned ones were historically the only ones that were used for “optimizing” a web page.

Today, there is absolutely no optimizing value in any Meta Tag.

Alt Text
<img src=”image.gif” mce_src=”image.gif” alt=”related keywords” />

Optimizing image Alternative Text - Alt=”related keywords” was a worthwhile effort at one time. While there is still optimization value for navigational links that use images rather than text links, the inherent “enhancement” associated with Alternative Text optimization is pretty much worthless for better ranks.

It is worth mentioning that the appeal of image link can still be available with text links using CSS controlled mouseovers – thus there is really no good reason to use image links (this is also true for display ads).

Comment Tags
<!– Keywords here –>

Comment Tags at one time did have some influence in ranks and may (like Meta Description) in a semi-controlled environment show as a ranking value but in practical application there is no value for any meaningful traffic oriented results. Search engines will often use comment tags for relevant contextual information of a page but seem does not suggest any value for ranking criteria in any meaningful way.

Keyword Density
Many people waste vast quantities of time measuring the density of the keyphrase (e.g. Keyword Density) being ranked on a specific page. Some even say a certain percent of keyword repetitiveness is invaluable to ranking better and once you reach that percentage any additional use of the phrase “decreases ranks”… I really like someone to actually show me the empirical evidence for this one.

Keyword Density offers no inherent value to better ranks beyond the common use of text on a page (on all pages).

It’s worth mention that the use of hidden text (e.g. commonly denoted as text that is the same color as the background color of the page adds no value to ranking a page. Regardless of the inherently “shady trick” being deployed the practice is based on the assumption that higher keyword density means higher ranks. Since no one can categorically prove that any percentage of repeated text is better than any other percentage of repeated text the need to “hide” because you don’t wish visitors to see something that has no value to them, because there is no value to be bettered ranked in any search engine - what’s the point of use?

Title Attribute
The title attribute title=”terms here” I actually like to use but it has no ranking enhancement value what-so-ever. The pop-up tool tip is more for demonstrating (an example only) what can be found on the next page if used in the link to that page.

Bold or Strong
While there is some empirical evidence that supports the use of bold or strong inherently that value amount is minimal.

I professionally use the following criteria to determine “if” I will use a specific technique in the capacity of optimizing a web page…

“If it can make a difference in the top 30 results positions of at least 100 potential returns then it is worthy of being an optimization technique.”

“If you need to create results where there is none so you can determine any value what-so-ever the technique is worthless for practical application in optimization.”

Sometime ever little bits can “hurt” more than it helps.

What's Left?

Content & Links -- that's it. While that's a very simplistic view and the details are specifically more if you ignore all the other crap you'll find success faster and more resistant to declines.

I think that there are lots of free guides to SEO out there... and lots of inexpensive (about $100 or less) ebooks. The determined person could get one of these and learn a lot about how to optimize a site and get some links. Then combine that with a forum like this where specific questions can be asked.

With all of that low cost and free assistance out there why are so many people coming into forums crying about their sites not ranking or their sites getting dropped. The reason... read the second sentence...

*the determined person*

If you offer a course you can market page optimization as a commodity that can be learned... but some will not because they expect you to spoon feed then, do things for them, and suckle them along.

Those packaged courses deal with the easy 1/3 of SEO - page optimization. That is the commodity. The other 2/3 is in producing the content and getting the links. Now we are talking about the really tough stuff... where my expertise would fall short for a very large number of sites and also my dedication. I have it for my niche by not yours. It comes down to....

*the determined person*

If SEO training is to be a commodity then anyone who enrolls will expect it to produce for them a top ten ranking for a high money term. Isn't that what they will expect of they pay you good money? If it was that easy, I should own half of Google. Why don't I?

Everybody wants a guarantee and SEOs are hesitant to give one. Are you going to guarantee your students a first page ranking on google within three months of finishing your course? If you can't then who are you going to get for references?

Out of every 100 people who come through the doors here, how many of them, after one year have a website that makes enough to quit their job?

Getting to the bottom line... if you are going to offer this service and produce a good product (a student who can put sites on the first page of google for money terms)... then you can't sell the training to any jackass who has the admission fee and expect to have 85% satisfied customers.

The best universities are hard to get into because they produce a high quality product on which their reputation stands. They only admit...

*the determined person*

If you want to control the quality going out the door you got to control what comes in. To have a good reputation you must weed out the chumps before you take any money.

What service are you offering?

A) How to improve your website's visibility in the search engines
(fairly easy to do with anyone)

B) How to be qualified for an entry-level position with an SEO firm.
(your name goes on these people, so pick your students carefully)

C) How to quit your job and make a living from your website.
(this takes an awful lot more than A or B)

D) How to make a living working on your website Saturday mornings in your PJs.
(this is what 90% of your potential students have in mind)

You are right with your words, but as a matter of fact, Textbooks/guides/do-it-yourself kits are available everywhere, but not everyone is successful with the tips.. The content of the books are written by some of the people like us only.. A student has his own textbooks but he doesnt score good marks ..

A determined person, will I guess opt in for more potential areas(if he's determined) to choose in, as coding and designing are pretty lucrative as well..

Its just not a comodity for sale, its what I have earned and learned from YOU all..its the knowledge YOUR knowledge I am gonna pass it on to the students..and thereby, Attracting more students to opt in for SEO as a career..



I agree completely with this..you have an Idea for this? A special free trial class ?

WHile I read your second post, the brainstorming questions made the first post more clearer..

I can handle the answers to the first two questions, but the last 2.. I can only imagine of some kinda vague answers



Actually, For this, one has to be very thorough with his SEO Knowledge and hands on experience plus, and shud have so much of confidence that even if he blows away his job, he is able to withstand the monetory drop and as the surge comes in his financial conditions, he should then be able to recover it up through his website, before that he needs not to quit.. IMHO..You can suggest better Ideas for this




If I am not wrong, this questions is actually focussed on AdWords and Adsense, as to how a perfect stratergy can lead to profits within minutes..I cant hink on this one.. You have to answer that for me

Thanks and Regards EGOL & Fathom

PS: After reading all the inputs, I am now kinda enlightened as well as scared, will it be a succesful venture.. or just a flop show?

That is the guts of it isn't it. It takes skill, time and/or money. It is not easy. The knowledge of what to do is such a small part of winning the game. I know main my stength at SEO is the desire to win. The knowledge and skill sets are just the tools that must be used.

SEO for money terms nowdays takes so very much effort. As EGOL said *the determined person* has a chance. When there are many determined people... well this is where the real fun starts...