Content Writer With SEO Questions

[KatieGrrl]

Hi,

I'm a freelance writer. I started in print, have done online news and articles and I'm starting to get more and more key word/seo type work.

Fine. I can work keywords into articles and posts no problem. Well written and linkable too.

I'm starting a new website and I have a couple of questions about my own SEO.

1) I registered three versions of my domain. My company name uses the word Centric, which is usually preceded with a dash... -centric. So let's call my site Name followed by Centric followed by Writing. So my domains are: Name-Centric.tld NameCentricWriting.tld and Name-CentricWriting.tld. I plan to use one as my main domain and have the others forward to the main domain.
But, which one should be the main? The last one I mentioned, Name-CentricWriting is out. I don't like it. Just bought it to cover-my-butt. I like the two word domain, shorter, but it has a dash. The three word domain is longer, but no dash. Easier to tell people what it is on the phone. The phone/radio test.

Like I said, I'm getting more content/seo work so I'd hate for my domain to look like I know nothing about SEO. I just can't decide. What do you guys think?

2) I'm also interested in knowing what you think is the right rate to charge clients for keyword/SEO articles and blog posts.
Depending on the type of writing I'm hired to do - copy, presentations, brochures, white papers- I generally charge between $60 and $100 per hour. Though more often I just quote a per project rate. Suggestions?

Thanks to all those who reply and thanks for posting all the other great advice in these forums. I've been reading!

[EGOL]

1) I strongly recommend domains that pass the telephone test.

2) As you probably know, content for the web has become a commodity. Writers from Asia and some from North America are willing to write for a few cents per word. Lots of people will never consider you with your rate per hour. Stick to your guns if you are good. You don't want to be a racehorse that pulls a plow.

The rate that you are asking can only be justified by a few types of webmasters:

A) those who have enormous traffic that can pay back what you charge in ad views;

B) those who have a professional site with high value visitors;

C) organizations where image, quality and "getting a message out" are held in high regard;

D) those who are gunning for home-run-hitting content that will be widely shared and attract visitors; and,

E) a few other special cases.

Those make up a very tiny percentage of webmasters.

I have paid your rates for highly skilled writers with very specific expertise who can efficiently produce best-on-the-web content for assigned topics. These people also come with access to materials and locations that provide perfect photos for illustrating their writing.

Sometimes I make a profit from their writing and sometimes the return is negative. I do most of my own writing and their work ads variety to the site.

I have two problems: 1) people who have the expertise and photo access are horrible writers; and, 2) those who can write well lack the content expertise (which is quickly detected by visitors to my website).

If I was looking to sell myself as a writer I would figure out how to let people know that I don't write 500 word articles for $5 long before they call or email. I would also have a website that points to lots of great content that I have produced for other websites that is ranking well, attracting links, and pulling lots of traffic.

=================

You didn't ask for this but I want to ask why you are not building a content site for yourself? Great content writers are the most valuable talent on the web in my opinion.

If you have a great site you get to keep all of the rewards instead of working by the hour or by the piece for a rate that is low enough that your client can still make a nice profit.

[Dr.Marie]

You didn't ask for this but I want to ask why you are not building a content site for yourself? Great content writers are the most valuable talent on the web in my opinion.

This is an excellent point! A couple of years ago I folowed EGOL's advice and my content site is now making me much more money than if I had hired myself out to write articles.

You'd have a little bit of a learning curve to set up the site, but once going, if you've got good content you have a lasting legacy that will keep earning you money for years and years. Some of my articles that I wrote 2 years ago are now on the front page of Google and make me decent money each month through Adsense.

It's a tough climb at first. At first I would be excited to make a few pennies each day. But if you keep at it and produce good quality it can be very lucrative!

[KatieGrrl]

Ok, you both offer some very good advice.

I guess I'm going with the longer domain. I agree, dashes are nothing but trouble. I think I would quickly grow tired of telling people "it's "name-centric, with a dash!"

As for my rates...no I agree, the rate I charge for other writing services can't be the same rate I charge for content. No way. But, you are correct, I won't write for $5.00. I am interested in finding out what other pro writers charge, though. I"m not talking about people who write for content mills or who are based overseas with English as a second language. I'm talking about people who write for professional sites such as law firm sites, medical sites, etc.

Now, I'd really like to hear a little more from each of you regarding developing my own content site. I've seriously considered it. I know a few things about Wordpress, I'm not bad at photoshop and I'm learning Seo. I have questions as to what you are thinking.

What topic would I build a site around? Writing? I visit those sites and, though some are fine, like most things writing-related, I don't see the money potential. Dr. Marie, you're a vet, that's a fantastic topic to build a site around. I visited your site, it's great and pet care is naturally good content.

Or are you talking about an affiliate site. Pick a category of products, say t-shirts, and sell them online.

I'd love it if you'd share a few more of your thoughts.

Thanks for responding. I hope you will again!

[Test-ok]

Hi,

1) I registered three versions of my domain. My company name uses the word Centric, which is usually preceded with a dash... -centric. So let's call my site Name followed by Centric followed by Writing. So my domains are: Name-Centric.tld NameCentricWriting.tld and Name-CentricWriting.tld. I plan to use one as my main domain and have the others forward to the main domain.
But, which one should be the main?

Seeings how you already own them, why not post what you have...it's easier to comment on something one can see rather than guessing. However with the information shown I'd go with NameCentricWriting.tld , does the business name have anything to do with writing or communicating?

[Dr.Marie]

What topic would I build a site around? Writing? I visit those sites and, though some are fine, like most things writing-related, I don't see the money potential. Dr. Marie, you're a vet, that's a fantastic topic to build a site around. I visited your site, it's great and pet care is naturally good content.

Or are you talking about an affiliate site. Pick a category of products, say t-shirts, and sell them online.

I definitely wouldn't recommend an affiliate site. They may work for some people, but unless you've got a really good product to promote they're not that lucrative. I'd say 90% of my online revenue comes from Adsense. As I mentioned above, it's a slow climb at first, but once you get a good thing going it can be a good income. I've been at this a couple of years now and was making enough to cover my mortgage (until we recently moved to a bigger place!) But, if I keep at it I know it will get better and better.

Now, what topic to write about? You need to choose a topic that you are passionate about that you could write about all day every day and never get tired of.

If you do research on "how to choose a niche" you will find people telling you to do keyword research (i.e. with the Google Adwords tool) to determine which niches have lots of readers but not much competition. I'm not sure I agree with that. Don't fear competition. If you can write well about something then you can often do better than the competition.

Once you get going, you can come in here and ask specific questions about things. I asked a LOT of questions when I got started.

[EGOL]

As Dr.Marie recommends, your topic must be one that you truly enjoy and can write about long-term without fatigue.

It must also be one that you have the ability to produce best-on-the-web content that is useful or entertaining for the reader and technically accurate. If you don't have this your site will not attract enough visitor support to succeed in the search engines. Don't start a site if you don't have this type of topic and the personal drive needed to produce this type of content again and again and again over the years.

I would also recommend a topic for which you can get excellent photos, videos, art or other non-text assets that will enrich your site. Sites that have excellent text content with rich media have the best chance of success.

My experience with Adsense has been the same as Dr. Marie's. And, for affiliate programs I have tried many. In about ten years the only two that have worked well were those that perfectly matched the content area of my website. They were highly desirable products that immediately triggered lots of impulse purchases.

[KatieGrrl]

I really love a good forum. I'm glad I joined.

Seeings how you already own them, why not post what you have

A few years ago I asked a question in a forum regarding a website I was contributing to. It was a fairly basic question, one I knew the answer to but wanted to discuss with a few others in the industry. Several months later I searched Google for the domain and a few pages down found a link to my forum discussion. Prior to that it never really occurred to me that forum discussions were indexed. I almost choked. Nothing bad in the post, but I really didn't want any of my clients seeing it. It included my online user name (different from this one) that I often used and was also an email address. Easy to know it was me. Since then I try as much as possible to leave exact domain names out - sometimes it's a must to include them, but I don't think this discussion warrants it.

Why doesn't this discussion warrant it you ask? Because you guys have confirmed what I already knew, dashes are trouble. I'm going with the slightly longer domain, no dash. Yes, centric is usually preceded by a dash when writing, but domains have their own rules.

As for the rates people charge, if any of you know of a good link to an article regarding this, I'd love to see it. Or if you know what someone like me should charge a lawyer, Realtor or some other professional or professional firm for content building, i.e. articles on estate planning for an estate law firm, I'd like to know.

Now, on to what has become a really interesting part of this discussion...my own content site.

Like I mentioned, I've considered this in the past. Now, you have me considering it again.

I'm wondering what kind of time frame we're talking about when we talk about actually earning more than a few pennies here and there? Let's suppose there is a topic I'm passionate about and it's also a topic I'm always learning something new about. If I were to start a well-written, informative website sharing with people the things I've learned the past few years and sharing with them new things as I learned them, what are we talking?

You should know I can get a site up and running, I'm learning SEO, I have a pretty good grasp of social media, I write regularly, I'm great at research and I'm very good at conveying complicated material in an easy to understand fashion. Oh, and of course my idea is in a very crowded web market.

So, what can I expect? I know, it's nearly impossible to predict especially at this stage of the game, I'm just asking in a general way. If I wanted $500 a month? $1000? More?
How long is realistic? I think with my background I may be in a slightly better position than most to make a go of something like this. So, given that, what am I looking at?

Thanks and thanks for participating in this conversation with me.

[EGOL]

In my opinion, your abilities as a writer are secondary to your expertise in the content area.

articles on estate planning for an estate law firm

When I read something like this my immediate reaction is.... What qualifies you to write this content?

I have a website that has content similar to this. A person writes to me offering to prepare an article on a very specific subject. I write back asking his qualifications. He writes back informing me that Mr. SoAndSo, a person with decades of experience, will be writing it. I look at Mr. SoAndSo's profile page and think that he probably has the qualifications and agree to consider an article.

I receive the article and it was quite good writing but the content had subtle but deadly flaws. Mr. SoAndSo didn't write it. The writer wrote it.

There's no way I could publish something like that. Content experts who visit my site would detect the inexperienced authorship very quickly, not only by the selection of words but also by fine details of accuracy.

My point is that you have to be really careful if you are writing about things like medicine and finance if you don't have a deep and strong background in those subjects. It would be best to have formal qualifications - like Dr.Marie.

[EGOL]

So, what can I expect?

Can you pick subjects, search google for that topic, and know that you can defeat the content of every site currently positioned on the first page? That means, better writing, more detail, better graphics, better everything.

If you can do that then I might bet on you.

If I wanted $500 a month? $1000? More? How long is realistic?

Can you do what I asked above at least once or twice a week and hold that pace for a couple of years until your site gets traction? Can you swim underwater that far until you get your first air?

If you can do that then I might bet on you.


Keep in mind that you are not competing against people who are sitting at a card table in their basement typing on a cheap laptop. In many niches your competitors are teams of people who have support staffs to help them.

Everybody who I know who has a successful site is working at it continuously and has been doing that for quite a while.

[KatieGrrl]

Ouch! Ok, that hurt a little. I'm guessing you're being tough because, like editors I've had in the past, if I can't take it, I'm in the wrong business.

What qualifies you to write this content?

1) I have a master's degree in journalism
2) I have more than a handful of years of experience writing for print
3) These are, among others, some of the professions or "beats" I've covered for print
4) These are the type of clients I tend to work with on non-web-related projects

Can you pick subjects, search google for that topic, and know that you can defeat the content of every site currently positioned on the first page? That means, better writing, more detail, better graphics, better everything.

This is an interesting question. Yes, I believe I can at least compete with the sites on the first page in terms of quality, but I also find a lot of low quality sites on the first few pages. My concern isn't with my own abilities, my concern is trying to compete with sites that are already well SEO'd, have age, an established audience and a great deal of existing content. This is what has kept me from developing a content site. I write for a living. This isn't my hobby or a nice second job. When you suggested cutting out the middle man, producing content for my own site and keeping the profits for myself, you got my attention. I ask these questions because, as a professional, I need to know what I'm up against and when and how much I can expect in terms of earnings.

I started this thread because I'm building a new professional site hawking my services. I've had a few existing clients ask me to do some writing for their professional sites. They were existing clients, so fees were easier to work out. Now I'm wondering whether or not it's worth my time and effort to market myself more heavily and aggressively in the content/seo area. That's why I'm interested in finding out what people like me charge other professionals for this type of work. When talking to other writers and when researching fees, I've found fees range from $50 for 50 articles (no way) to a couple thousand dollars a month for a handful of articles, a handful of directory listings and a handful of backlinks. You can see why I'm a little confused.

It's about time management and ROI. If I'm going to spend part of my time either marketing myself to and writing for other people's sites or spend part of my time developing my own content site, I need to figure out which is the better business decision. You suggested keeping the money for myself. I like that idea! Dr. Marie added that she still makes money off of articles she wrote two years ago. I like that very much! But, I'm still a business person. I understand there's risk in everything, but I'm trying to figure out whether or not it's worth the risk to develop a content site and worth the time.

It might also interest you to know that though it took me a while to get used to the idea that print is essentially dead, I love the web. Whether writing for myself or writing for others, I can reach more people on the web and for longer periods of time than I could ever reach in print.

Yesterday you got me a little excited at the thought of developing my own content site. Today, a little less so. Now what?

[DarrenHaye]

1) I have a master's degree in journalism
2) I have more than a handful of years of experience writing for print
3) These are, among others, some of the professions or "beats" I've covered for print
4) These are the type of clients I tend to work with on non-web-related projects

Read again..

In my opinion, your abilities as a writer are secondary to your expertise in the content area.

Also

Now I'm wondering whether or not it's worth my time and effort to market myself more heavily and aggressively in the content/seo area.

What do you mean by that exactly? what exactly would you be marketing yourself as.

[Test-ok]

I understand there's risk in everything, but I'm trying to figure out whether or not it's worth the risk to develop a content site and worth the time.

You know it's not going to happen overnight, but with time and OJT in a couple a years you might be thankful you did. You know you can do both, write for others while furthering your inner ambitions. I wouldn't douse the fire you've got burnin.

[KatieGrrl]

Read again..

I understand what he's saying. There are a lot of very good writers out there, but they don't all possess the skills I possess. In journalism, some of us have backgrounds in other professions such as law or medicine and others, like me have backgrounds in journalism. In other words, some go to law school, some go to j-school.

There are quite a few journalists out there who have backgrounds in other professions, professions they know inside and out, but they can't write or report worth a lick. That's fine, organizations need them. That's why we have editors. There are others in journalism who are great reporters, great interviewers, great writers. We may not have finance degrees, medical degrees or law degrees, but we know how to get a story, how to research it, how to get the right people in on it. We know how to write it for the masses. That's me.

You might be surprised to know that big law firms, hospitals and all the big banks have people with my background on their payroll. And, not just one or two people...they have departments.

Business people aren't known for their writing skills. They know numbers, not words. As smart as a lot of people are, they have a difficult time articulating themselves. Have you ever read anything written by a doctor? If you have, it was likely ghost written by someone like me.

I don't want to work for a law firm or hospital. I want to work for myself. Freelancers like me do a variety of things. In addition to writing pieces for print (fewer and fewer I might add) I also write presentations, brochures, copy, promotional materials, training materials, white papers, whatever, for corporations, firms and professionals.

When I talk about writing content, I'm not talking about offering legal advice or medical advice the way Dr. Marie offers veterinary advice, I'm talking about writing the articles you find on the sites of many firms. Those articles often walk people through the process. My guess is those articles aren't written by $300/hour lawyers. They're written by the marketing department.

What do you mean by that exactly? what exactly would you be marketing yourself as.

I already market myself, that's how I get the kind of clients I talked about above. I'm in the middle of building a new professional site marketing myself, my skills and experience. When I think about the services I offer (see above), I'm considering also offering my skills as a content provider to professionals and businesses marketing themselves through their websites. I've done some web-specific writing, but most of what I do, or have done is meant for print. Or, it's in-house, or it's training, or it's marketing.

As I mentioned earlier, I charge somewhere between $60 and $100 an hour for these services. Sometimes a little more if it's a big corporation, especially if they need it fast. It's a good living, but it requires constant marketing and networking. When I say I"m not sure it's worth my time marketing myself in the content/seo area, it's because my marketing time is limited. I need to get the best return on it I can. So, I can choose to continue marketing myself as I have been or, I can add a new, slightly different service to my already existing services. I have to figure out if it's worth it or not. Is it worth it to market web content services? Will I get a good return (will I make decent money) on my investment of time or, should I skip the content service and just continue to offer the service I now offer?

I can bring value to a companies website, to a professionals website. Will it be valuable to me?

[KatieGrrl]

You know it's not going to happen overnight, but with time and OJT in a couple a years you might be thankful you did

That's what intrigues me. If I put in the time and effort, will I stand to see a nice payoff. That may be a chance I'm willing to take.

Dr. Marie's reminder that things written for the web can payoff for years got to me.

You know you can do both, write for others while furthering your inner ambitions

Yes, I have no intention of giving up other writing work. I'm just talking about adding, or not, one more dimension to my business, to the services I offer. A new revenue stream. I like multiple revenue streams!