<noframes> / <noscript>?

Hey Everyone,

I recently read an article and saw some websites using an interesting approach.

I have seen websites using the <noscript> and <noframes> tag within the header content of the website in order to insert of well needed keywords, links and H1 tags.

Is this spam? Does Google, Yahoo, MSN allow this kind of approach to optimization?

Do you believe the various Bots will be able to spider this content?

It appears you can add quite abit into the <noframes> tag and have it spidered by the engines but now show up as html on the page when browsing the site...

Good Idea?

Cheers

Critter
8-)

It is not spam if there is real use for it. If a site is in frames, and they use the noframes tag, then there is no problem with it. If a page is heavily using JavaScript and they use the noscript tag, then there is no problem with it.

Hey Rusty...

Well I'm not a fan of framed sites, I was actually thinking of using the <noframes> in the header merely to add basically my sitemap so Google could follow all the links properly....

Do you think Google will frown upon this?

I'm thinking for a VERY COMPETITIVE industry, where a potential ban might not be the end of the world.....Might help with Yahoo no?

Critter

Not sure which forum you want me to answer this question in. ;)

It should only be used to benefit the end user. If you do not have a valid reason to use it (outside of trying to improve rankings) then a competitor can report you and possibly, you can be banned. Its not worth it.

The <noframes> tag can be a power tool if used correctly.

I have used when the homepage of a site has little to no content at all. The <noframes> tag will provide you with an area to add enough content to make Google happy.

We used it on a site that had absolutely no text on the homepage and had a ton of success, especially in Google.
The site had won several awards for its design, so adding text to the homepage was out of the question.

I have seen the <noframes> tag used by spammers, but I have also seen it used by SEO's that use cloaking or stealth technology to hide what they are doing.

I also know several SEO's that are paranoid that someone else will figure out what they are doing so they will put their SEO work into the <noframes> tag, I have even seen them hide them in .DLL files.

So as you can see there are several reasons that people are using the <noframes> tags, now you have to figure out is it worth it for you to do.

Using frames creates more work, which means more expense for the client. The bottom line is, is the extra work and expense worth the possibility of increasing your rankings.

In most cases I would say it not worth the adding work and expense.

However when there is a legitimate reason to use the <noframes> tag, like no content on the homepage, I would recommend using it.

I don't see any reason why any of the engines would ban you for it, as far as the engines are concerned it is just another site in frames.

Ray Gonzalez

If you site does not use frames, then you shouldn't use the no frames tag. That would be improper use of HTML Google frowns upon that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html Quality Guidelines - Basic principles: Make pages for users, not for search engines. Don't deceive your users, or present different content to search engines than you display to users. Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?" Quality Guidelines - Specific recommendations: Avoid hidden text or hidden links. Webmasters who spend their energies upholding the spirit of the basic principles listed above will provide a much better user experience and subsequently enjoy better ranking than those who spend their time looking for loopholes they can exploit.

The above was taken from ( http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html ).

I am extremely familiar with -http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html - as every one that performs SEO services should be.

That is why if you put the site into frames, then use the <noframes> tag you are not doing anything wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong putting a site into frames, using an image in the new frame, with using the ALT tag on the image, then using the <noframes> tag.

I don't see how that would be improper use of HTML or why Google would frown upon it.

It isn't hiding text, it is making use of everyday tools and frames, on top of that frames have been around forever.

Hiding text is usually making the text the same color as the background or hiding it behind an image using a JavaScript.

For the reasons I have listed above and personal experience I stand by my recommendations.

Ray Gonzalez

I couldn't agree more Ray. What I was trying to say was that you shouldn't use <noframes> if you not using frames.

From what Critter said, I thought that his plan was not using frames in the site, just using the tag to show something for google that would never be displayed on the page to the end user.

To be clear, I didn't intend to insult anyone here. Best of luck.

I wasn't insulted at the same token I hope I didn't come off condescending.

I have never done it without actual using the frames and I don't know that it would work, I doubt it would be a good thing though.

I tried to explain the method I used in a little more detail in my last post so that the method I used was clearer - that's all.

HEY ALL

Critter here!

I was in fact asking about the <noframes> in reference to a website which does not use frames.

I hate frames and rarely design using them, but it was just a thought in my head, as I was trying to come up with LEGIT and SEO FRIENDLY ways of competing in a market like Pharmacy.

While I know that link building really does dictate your succes on Google, I just thought, hey, what about <noframes>.

Anyways thanks everyone for the replies. I will listen to the advice of all and probably stay away from <noframes> until that dark day when actually build a framed site.

Cheers

CRITTER