#16
  1. No Profile Picture
    Registered User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0
    That last reply was intended for 'KnowOneSpecial'. I did click on the 'Reply With Quote' but it only gives me the Quick Reply option. Maybe that's one of those facilities you don't get to use on this forum until you have made 30 posts??

    Anyway, this reply is intended for JohnAimit who said: "Link building is the SEO strategy to be avoided if at all possible because it is the most dangerous, time consuming, ineffective and transient tactic you can employ."

    As I mentioned in my previous reply, I'm working as a content writer for an SEO company, so the decision to do link building is not my decision. I'm only a small cog in the whole process. But I do know the SEO company regards link building as only one component in their project plan which includes a whole range of on page and off page SEO strategies. And I also fully understand that compelling content is what works both in terms of what the client has on their own website and what I am writing for the purpose of securing backlinks.

    And I also fully understand that DA is a metric not used by Google, but it was what I was using as a first indicator of the worth of a site to approach for guest posting or publication of an article. For example, only today I came across two sites that were a very good niche fit for a particular client. Both had excellent content, and on both I could see a couple of guest posts (but not many so that suggested they were very picky about what they published from third parties) but one had a DA of 9 and the other had a DA of 61. So you can guess which one I am focusing my efforts on!
  2. #17
  3. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Edison, NJ
    Posts
    43
    Rep Power
    1
    No its not effected on Your Website Authority, if you give link to SPAM website then, chance to PA and DA
  4. #18
  5. No Profile Picture
    Moderator
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,363
    Rep Power
    2484
    Originally Posted by banyanman
    Maybe that's one of those facilities you don't get to use on this forum until you have made 30 posts??
    No, it;s a bug in the software here I think. I have the same issues with the "Reply with quote" as well... LOL... a minor inconvenience.
    Last edited by KnowOneSpecial; Aug 29th, 2017 at 08:55 AM.
  6. #19
  7. SeoRaptor
    SEO Chat Adventurer (500 - 999 posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    France, Saint-Etienne
    Posts
    993
    Rep Power
    1703
    The first questions you should ask yourself after

    1. Can anyone get a link from it, if Yes, not much quality there.
    2. Can you get multiple links from the site, if yes, not much quality either.
    3, Does the site have a tremendous quantity of Out Bound Links, if yes probably not much quality, there are few rare exceptions.
    4. Is it in a foreign language, if yes, probably not, again there are a few rare exceptions
    are:

    Is the global site thematic relevant to my product (or content)
    Is the site audience relevant to my business
    Is the content in which the link is placed well written and relevant (informative, qualitative, etc...)
    Owner of Bennetonable - "My opinions are my own - Feel free to disagree & think above the fold."
    Need a quick analysis > Free SEO grader Beta
  8. #20
  9. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    277
    Rep Power
    591
    Hi Banyanman,
    You should be a major cog in the SEO process. Without your content there is nothing to attract potential clients. I do understand what you mean. My comments must work within your systems/methods.

    What is your content planning methodology? I would recommend this sequence:

    • What type of client is the content for?
    • Where are they located?
    • Where are they likely to be in their purchasing process?
    • What are the prime search words for this copy?
    • What other individual search words does the copy need to support?
    • Where will this page be posted in the site heierarchy?
    • What related content is already on the site and how should it be cross linked?
    • What action(s) do you want visitors to undertake?
    • How will you and your client measure results?

    If you work in an environment where you are simply directed to target a specific exact match search keyword for your page copy, you may find these suggestions very difficult to implement.

    So much depends on the client and their business objectives. I always start with a client meeting do get very, very specific info about their special expertise and where they want to grow their business.

    Eg:
    • Business category: A small accounting practice in a suburb of Sydney
    • Target new client types: Not-for-profit organisations and educational organisations

    You won't find much search volume, if any for such specific search terms.

    We published one new page for each of these Sydney-based client segments and within 9 months, three new clients were obtained. When you consider that accountants tend to retain clients for years, the accumulated profits from this SEO exercise were immense.

    Four years later and the client is still near top of the SERPs for these search terms without a single $ spent on link building.

    If you research accounting related keywords, you are likely to find the vast majority of them revolve around personal income tax returns. That does not make them and the people who use them the most cost-effective market segment for a client to target.

    BTW, The best SEO results must involve:

    • The site structure/design - web developer
    • The page content - the copywriter
    • The page publishing system
    • The SEO director

    Poor implementation from any of these can compromise relevant site referrals.

    Comments on this post

    • banyanman agrees : Thanks for that advice John - very helpful
    Last edited by JohnAimit; Aug 30th, 2017 at 05:09 AM.
  10. #21
  11. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    279
    Everyone reading these posts, please ignore the posters saying to avoid Link Building. They don't know what they're talking about and are offering very bad advice. There are many many ways to build links, while still being white hat. Just building good content, with the assumption that "if you build it, they will come," is absolute nonsense for most of us. I don't know about you, but most of my clients are SMB's that don't have the authority of one of their larger competitors.

    For example, I used to work on Verizon Fios, and ya, often whatever we built would get naturally linked to, especially in publications, but MOST do not have that luxury, so please stop feeding that line. When you have a content strategy, you need to have an audience in mind that you plan on outreaching to to bring attention to your content. There are good and bad ways of doing that, but it's necessary if you want links.

    If you want an example, my last client was a Franchise, so I worked with all of their Franchisees. They dealt mostly in mold & water damage restoration...hardly a sexy topic. To build links I told them 3 very natural ways to do it as a business. Join membership organizations, like Chambers in their service areas, or any other relevant group. Sponsor a group or an event, like a high school or 5K walk. Many of these organizations have a website where they link to their sponsors. Lastly, become a preferred vendor for as many real estate, property management, HOA, and Insurance companies, because they often link to their preferred vendors on their website. I even used simple, but advanced search queries to find these prospects nationwide, and gave them to the Franchisees on a silver platter to contact.

    I don't even know if I'd call these link building strategies because of how natural they are, since so many local businesses do it, without even thinking about the link...All I did was educate the Franchise on the link building potential, and no one can tell me that the above would be considered "black hat" or low quality links. Even if you're paying for some of these links, they'll never come under scrutiny because of their relevance. And guess what, since most of their competitor's marketing teams never did any link building campaigns, from what I could see in their backlinks, we skyrocketed passed them. I took a Franchise that was ranking near 100 for most keywords, to the 1st page on top performing keywords and local keywords in about 6 months. Map results also improved.

    So, I'll leave everyone with this. Whether you like it or not, links are still the #1 ranking factor. I'm sure the weight Google gives links will change, but we've been saying that for quite a few years now, and it still may be a few more until it changes. Just because you don't want to take the time to do the grunt work of link building, don't discourage others from learning high quality link building tactics. Not to mention that you are doing a disservice to your clients or company by not including link building within your SEO strategy. Content Strategy doesn't = Link Building.

    If anyone wants a real expert on Link Building, just message me. Most everyone else on this forum is great for on-page and technical SEO, but they know very little about off-page tactics.

    Comments on this post

    • banyanman agrees
  12. #22
  13. No Profile Picture
    Registered User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0
    The first questions you should ask yourself after


    1. Can anyone get a link from it, if Yes, not much quality there.
    2. Can you get multiple links from the site, if yes, not much quality either.
    3, Does the site have a tremendous quantity of Out Bound Links, if yes probably not much quality, there are few rare exceptions.
    4. Is it in a foreign language, if yes, probably not, again there are a few rare exceptions


    are:

    Is the global site thematic relevant to my product (or content)
    Is the site audience relevant to my business
    Is the content in which the link is placed well written and relevant (informative, qualitative, etc...)

    Thanks, Pierre. Actually I normally ask those three questions FIRST, i.e. before the other four questions.
  14. #23
  15. No Profile Picture
    Registered User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0
    Sorry that 'Reply with Quote' bug is still there in that last post. I tried copy-pasting Pierre's reply in my draft. That appeared to show up as a quote but then when posted it looked like I had written the whole message - so very confusing for anyone trying to follow this thread. My reply was only the last line. Sorry about that!
  16. #24
  17. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    279
    1. Can anyone get a link from it?

    - Usually bad, but there are exceptions.

    2. Can you get multiple links from the site?

    - Why is this bad? Are you thinking their isn't much link juice? Is it spammy? If Huffington Post wants to link to me 20 times, I'm not going to complain. So, I wouldn't say this is a good rule of thumb.

    3. Does the site have a tremendous quantity of Out Bound Links?

    - Again, why is this bad? External linking case studies have actually shown to improve your authority and rankings. Now, I'm sure there's a limit, but what is "tremendous"? Resource Pages are huge for a lot of websites, since the intent is to provide a list of useful resources for its users. Often, these may have a lot of external links, and these aren't "rare."

    4. Foreign Language

    - Ya..probably best to just avoid...agreed there are a few exceptions.
  18. #25
  19. No Profile Picture
    Registered User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0
    Thanks Digital Marketeer. Yes, I was ignoring all the posters who were saying not to do link building because that is only what I am doing. I'm working for an SEO consultant who is the person in contact with the clients (and knows 100 times more about SEO than I do). I'm just the cog in the wheel that is writing quality content and trying to place it on quality websites where the backlink will be of value to the client. I'm taking into account all the advice that others have emphasised in targeting sites on which to place the content, and after doing this for about three months now, I think I have a pretty good idea of the sites to avoid.

    I was pleased to read your comment that "Whether you like it or not, links are still the #1 ranking factor" because if that was not the case, I would be puzzled why clients (through the SEO consultant) would be paying me to go to the effort of writing quality content and doing all the time-consuming outreach to get it placed on relevant sites.

    I have been surprised though, in the three months that I have been reviewing sites for placement of the content, just how much rubbish content there is on the web. Far more than I ever previously realised. Some sites contain nothing but spun content - some of which is almost unintelligible to read - and content that has been copy pasted and edited to pass Copyscape but was clearly written by someone who knows nothing about the subject. And 'fluff' content that does nothing more than fill up space and provide a vehicle for placement of outgoing links - many of which sound very unnatural. And yet many of those sites still manage DAs in the 20s and 30s on Moz. So does this mean that the Google crawlers are not yet clever enough to identify spun, badly written and fluff content? I guess the answer must be yes, but I wonder if with AI that will change in the near future?
  20. #26
  21. Digital Marketing
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    7,316
    Rep Power
    4894
    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    Whether you like it or not, links are still the #1 ranking factor.
    Slow down there cowboy I just did a search for pizza near me, the first three pizza shop results were single local stores with no real links. Dominoes, Pizza Hut, Pappa Johns were way behind.

    Care to modify that bold statement above to: For certain queries, whether you like it or not, links are still the #1 ranking factor.?
  22. #27
  23. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    279
    Map Results are slightly different. According to Moz 2017 Local SEO Ranking Factors, Links are #2 on the most important list for Map Packs. Proximity and Exact/Partial match keywords in business names are the top ranking factors for Maps. https://moz.com/local-search-ranking-factors.

    Since we weren't talking about local SEO, but about rankings in general, I was referring to the organic search results. For the 1-10 organic listings below the Maps, links are still #1. Now, obviously, this isn't always 100% true, since not all queries produce the type of sites that have a lot of links. But, case study after case study shows, that when you build links, especially around a non-competitive keyword, you will rank at the top quickly.

    Either way, being #1 for organic and #2 for Maps, according to Moz, makes links the most important ranking signal overall. So...no I don't care to modify my statement.
  24. #28
  25. Digital Marketing
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    7,316
    Rep Power
    4894
    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    Map Results are slightly different.
    I wasn't talking about maps brother, I am talking about organic results.

    For Hamburger near me McDonald's doesn't even show up on the first 2 pages and they have hundreds of thousands of links! Also, McDonald's is about a 3 wood and a pitching wedge from my office. Also absent are Burger King and Wendys, however Burgerfi is right at the top.

    Regardless, I got what I was after:
    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    For the 1-10 organic listings below the Maps, links are still #1. Now, obviously, this isn't always 100% true, since not all queries produce the type of sites that have a lot of links.
    After all that, of course quality links are the largest ranking signal. But they are far less important than they were 10 years ago, and that trend is still growing
    Last edited by KernelPanic; Aug 30th, 2017 at 03:55 PM.
  26. #29
  27. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    279
    KernalPanic,

    It's not so black and white. You know very well that while links are the #1 ranking factor, where the links are pointing and the anchor text being used matters as well. You can't build a website without a link building campaign, and expect to rank for competitive keywords, and you can't build links to a site that isn't properly optimized, and expect any better results. It's like the analogy I saw earlier...it'd be like building a car and not adding any fuel to it...or in this case, getting the fuel and not having a car to use it with.

    That being said, the top ranked sites for "hamburger near me" are sites with pages optimized for those keywords. They built the car. McDonalds? No such pages (and not that I'd ever expect them to). But if they did, do you think they'd rank at the top? Do you think McDonald's could compete for the 1st position? Of course....because the amount of authority mcdonalds.com has from all of the referring domains it's acquired, dwarfs any competitors ranking for "hamburger near me." In other words, McDonald's has the fuel, rocket fuel that is (lol). It'd just be up to them if they'd want to build the vehicle.

    So, I repeat, links are the #1 ranking factor. I didn't think I'd have to add the caveat "depending on how you use them."
  28. #30
  29. No Profile Picture
    Moderator
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,363
    Rep Power
    2484
    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    1. Can anyone get a link from it?
    - Usually bad, but there are exceptions.
    If I can just go to a site and create a backlink any time I want to, then there is no quality control. Then there is the question, is there any relevance ? Then also everyone else will post a link too.
    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    2. Can you get multiple links from the site?

    - Why is this bad? Are you thinking their isn't much link juice? Is it spammy? If Huffington Post wants to link to me 20 times, I'm not going to complain. So, I wouldn't say this is a good rule of thumb.
    This just implies that folks will abuse the site, post as many links as they want. Again, quality will suffer, folks will not pay attention to whether it is relevant or not. Greed !

    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    3. Does the site have a tremendous quantity of Out Bound Links?

    - Again, why is this bad? External linking case studies have actually shown to improve your authority and rankings. Now, I'm sure there's a limit, but what is "tremendous"? Resource Pages are huge for a lot of websites, since the intent is to provide a list of useful resources for its users. Often, these may have a lot of external links, and these aren't "rare."
    If they are links created by users, but not by the site admins or owners or moderators, then there is a great possibility that it's just links created for manipulating rankings.
    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    4. Foreign Language

    - Ya..probably best to just avoid...agreed there are a few exceptions.
    We agreed on the last one .... LOL see we have common ground after all.

    It is not that you should not do any link building, but most folks go about it the wrong way. We caution against link building campaigns by the "Un-Informed", "In-Experienced", etc, etc and so forth. Most of the folks that seek advice here are not "CrackerJack SEO Experts", a lot are just run of the mill folks trying to do a decent job. Those folks should farm link building out to the Pro's and not worry about if they have done it wrong.

    A lot of us here do link building, also we know what to avoid. You really only need a single link from any one site. Multiple links are nice if the site wants to "BESTOW" them upon you, which is about the only way I know to get 20 links from the Huffington Post. No user will just create them from posting....

Similar Threads

  1. Link juice
    By marianajones in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Mar 14th, 2012, 06:31 AM
  2. Masked Link to our PDF Passing Link Juice?
    By carlbielenberg7 in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Oct 18th, 2011, 12:18 PM
  3. Link juice with a 404
    By seomonkeymanocp in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 26th, 2009, 12:27 PM
  4. Link juice?
    By benifactor in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Jul 11th, 2007, 11:51 AM

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo