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#16

April 2nd, 2003, 04:26 AM

fathom

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Re: Google SEO Advice

I take nothing personal and appreciate the comments. You are correct, however I was commenting on jcm comments, which wasn't really towards the theory of PageRank but towards ranking.

Quote:

Originally posted by "jcm"

:
We have been experimenting with a site (www.allapprovedcars.com) over the last few months with google.

We have by link building been able to get our google tool bar rank to be 7. This is the highest value along with others (autotrader, fish4cars) in the UK for the sector in which we operate.

When you perform a search in google for :

used cars uk

we currently come seventh in the search results list - with three sites above us with lesser toolbar ranking.

As i understand it this is related to 'on page' content. Can anyone shed any light on what i can do with the home page to improve our position? The site is currently undergoing a complete redesign so this input would be useful in how we construct that.

Similarly, i notice if i change around the order of the keywords in the google search then the results i get are quite different. Has anyone got an explanation for this?

Regards

Jamie

PageRank itself is a measurement of voting and not of relevancy -agree.

The link itself determines relevancy as well as the content of the linked page.

So we agree on: a measurement of IMPORTANCE and that importance by itself does nothing to improve ranking or relevancy.

PageRank is however, 1 variable of ranking... which the noted whitepaper does not reference nor expand on...

Actually when I really put my mind to this... no one (who is "in the know") has ever expanded on ranking variables... we test, observe, assume, suggest, and so on.

It is therefore believed that PageRank is 1 of those variables that when associated with the 99 other variables will produce good ranking as defined by the query.

Sorry if I confused you.

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#17

April 2nd, 2003, 06:34 AM

Sharon & Roy

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Google PageRank Is The Last Part Of The Google Algorithm

Quote:

Originally posted by "fathom"

I take nothing personal and appreciate the comments.

Hi Fathom,

Thank you for your reply, we appreciate it and how refreshing it is to hear that you take nothing personal.

Quote:

Originally posted by "fathom"

You are correct, however I was commenting on jcm comments, which wasn't really towards the theory of PageRank but towards ranking.

Ahh, so then it all makes sense and thanks for clearing it up for us.

It was confusing as it "appearded" you were speaking about PageRank when you were actually speaking about page rank.

Quote:

Originally posted by "fathom"

PageRank is however, 1 variable of ranking... which the noted whitepaper does not reference nor expand on...

Actually when I really put my mind to this... no one (who is "in the know") has ever expanded on ranking variables... we test, observe, assume, suggest, and so on.

Actually Fathom, we have commented and expanded on the various ranking variables that Google uses to rank pages many times before. Here are our comments in light of the White Paper by Sergey Brin and Lawrence Page entitled "The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine" ...

Quote:

Originally posted by "The White Paper"

4.5.1 The Ranking System

Finally, the IR score is combined with PageRank to give a final rank to the document.

http://www-db.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html

Please pay particular attention to the fact that PageRank is combined to the IR score as the very LAST step in the ranking process.

The IR score consists of position, font, and capitalization information. Additionally, Google factors in hits from anchor text.

The document goes on to say:

Quote:

Combining all of this information into a rank is difficult. We designed our ranking function so that no particular factor can have too much influence.

First, consider the simplest case -- a single word query. In order to rank a document with a single word query, Google looks at that document's hit list for that word.

Google considers each hit to be one of several different types (title, anchor, URL, plain text large font, plain text small font, ...), each of which has its own type-weight.

The type-weights make up a vector indexed by type. Google counts the number of hits of each type in the hit list. Then every count is converted into a count-weight.

Count-weights increase linearly with counts at first but quickly taper off so that more than a certain count will not help. We take the dot product of the vector of count-weights with the vector of type-weights to compute an IR score for the document.

Finally, the IR score is combined with PageRank to give a final rank to the document.

Make sure that you really understand that last sentence, because that explains why people ask this very common and frequently asked question, "Why does that PR4 page outrank that PR7 page?

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#18

April 2nd, 2003, 07:24 AM

fathom

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Re: Google PageRank Is The Last Part Of The Google Algorithm

Quote:

Originally posted by "Sharon & Roy"

Re: Google PageRank Is The Last Part Of The Google Algorithm

I'm also very fond of the statement...

So we are optimistic that our centralized web search engine architecture will improve in its ability to cover the pertinent text information over time and that there is a bright future for search.

Excellent points - of course now I'm sure who to thank: Sharon or Roy, or Sharon & Roy

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