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    Hi Arjun3315,
    I've read your reference many times over the last 20 years years and I think I've read it accurately. Are you so sure in your interpretation?

    Your ref. says that PageRank is based on passing ranking values based on the individual words used in search queries.

    It talks about how each page is converted into "hit lists" based on the individual search words. Each page word hit list contain PageRank values based on the individual search words and whether the search words are used in link text.

    Is this how you read it?

    If so, can you explain why my comments above are in error?

    BTW, why do you think "new" pages have a special ranking value? As I understand it, G is selective about when it implements its "query deserves freshness" algo. There are many searches where freshness clearly has no impact at all.

    I think the G employee's response your reference is totally consistent with your reference and how G. search works.
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    Hi Arjun3315

    Lets address your statement
    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    1) I am 100% sure, you have no idea about PR equations. Just analysis your self, The are using inbound links and outbound links to calculate PR. If PR is not flow to external link, then Why PR equation using outbound links to calculate? and why they need to use how many pages is linked to that page?, Just because PR is flow, and that's why they are using convergence to calculate PR for each webpage after so many iteration method.
    Page Rank...
    formula
    PR(A) = (1-d) + d (PR(T1)/C(T1) + ... + PR(Tn)/C(Tn))
    where
    PR(A) is the PageRank of page A,
    PR(Ti) is the PageRank of pages Ti which link to page A,
    C(Ti) is the number of outbound links on page Ti and
    d is a damping factor which can be set between 0 and 1.

    edited to add
    No where in this equation are outbound links from the site, PR is being calculated for, are included in the calculation !!!
    Now lets just plug in some values... lets say its a new site and has no links. if "d" is some number between 0 and 1, then 0 < d < 1 then a new page at most can have a page rank of .99 which is less than 1, so it is said it has a PR of 0.

    Why, because the second term of d is multiplied by the number of links, in this case 0 and d times 0 = 0 !

    Now lets look at a site that has a PR of 1 and a site with PR of 5.
    Now Googles says all links on a page that are out bound, ie go to anywhere but the page they are on, including internal pages, and does not matter if they are follow or nofollow they all count towards the PR transferred to said page.

    Two sites, each has 10 links on a the home page. So each link on the site with a PR of 1, each link has a PR value of .1 and on the site with a PR of 5 each link has a PR value of .5. This value does not depend on whether the link is a follow or no follow link.

    So each link in your Primary Navigation counts as a link for this equation, each nofollow link on your page also counts as a link for this equation.

    Even if a link is labeled "nofollow" it is still added to the equation as a link and therefore counts against the PR of the page.

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    3) I am 100% sure, you have only few ideas about PR sculpting, you have never think, Why PR sculpting comes? Because Most of webmaster use nofollow tag on trusted links, to keep PR flow on own website, so Google think, if webmaster doing this continuously, then how can we know, that page is trusted or not, because webmaster want to keep PR flow on own website by adding nofollow tag on external link, hence they change it's algorithm, and they write post. If you add nofollow tag on trusted links or any type of links, then your PR will sculpt, i.e. Assume your webpage has 5 PR, and you have mention 5 links on that, and out of 5, you add 1 link with nofollow tag, then we did not pass more than 1PR to each page, we will pass only 1 PR to each page, we simply avoid your nofollow tag, when we calculate PR. So that is another evidence that PR is flow from one webpage to another.
    Here sir you are just plain wrong....the only part of your statement in this instance that is correct is,
    "So that is another evidence that PR is flow from one webpage to another."

    Let me explain a little further....
    Site has 10 links in its' Main nav, it also has 10 links in its' footer, it also has 10 outbound links to authority sites for reference and they are all "nofollow".

    How many outbound links from this page are on that page, 10 or 20 or 30???
    The answer is 30. Out bound just means some where but not this page !!!!! So if the site had a PR of 1 then each would carry a PR value of .03. Now the no follow links will not pass the .03 juice, but the do follow links will pass .03 juice to what ever page they point to. This is what Google did to "STOP PAGE RANK SCULPTING"!!! This happened some where between 2009 -2011 I think. I could very well be wrong about the date!!

    Comments on this post

    • Chedders agrees : perfect reply
    Last edited by KnowOneSpecial; Aug 10th, 2017 at 05:18 PM.
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    On a further note, now you know why having a mega menu can dilute your page rank to internal pages. Your site doesn't leak PR , it is just divided by the total number of out bound links, be they follow, nofollow. So if you have 100 links in your mega menu, then if your site is a PR 1 then the most PR any do follow link could pass is .01, but if your menu only had 10 links in it each link would pass a PR of .1. You don't lose PR by leakage , you can't sculpt PR using nofollow !

    The only way to sculpt PR is to limit the number of links on a page that link off page. If there is a link on a page that goes off page, then that link counts toward the max PR value the link can have. Using nofollow 8 or 9 years ago would work, but not today.
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    This is why on my tool I suggest a maximum number of links any page should have is 100. It goes without saying lower is better and much lower is even better.
    The home page is a great one to look at as in most cases the home page would contain the most page rank as on a normal site there should be a way of getting to the home page so page rank flow comes from all directions internally plus external links coming in.

    You can make internal pages stronger by being careful what you link to from the home page and only link to pages that are most important, Keep your footer links to a minimum or even create a new page for useful links so you just have the 1 link going to that making your other links stronger.

    Its always a balance in keeping the page rank flowing to the areas you want and being useful to the users but every link you create you should at least think about it.
    Owner of Page Explorer the page onsite SEO checker
    Useful Tools: Site Crawler: Screaming Frog | Free SSL: Cloudflare
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    1. Refer original white paper, it's clearly says PR is divided to all links. Read again n again.

    2. Google normal PR equation.

    PR(A) = (1-d) + d (PR(T1)/C(T1) + ... + PR(Tn)/C(Tn))

    PR (A)=(1-0.75)+d(0/0)
    PR(A)=0.25

    This is initial PR you get whenever you create a new page.

    This is not a equation Google use to calculate PR, they use this form.



    PR(A)= 1-0.75+0.75(0)=0.25

    Google always give some Pagerank whenever you create a page, it make sense from all the side.

    OK suppose you own website like reddit, now you guys claim PR is flow in internal links, but not to external links. Then still Reddit get lower PR whenever they create page. It is same like you get punishment whenever you create a new page, because your site has many pages and all PR will going to flow. Does it make sense to you?

    2. ALL PR is not passed to links, the page itself keep some PR. PR(A) = f(x)PR(B)

    3. Can you give me any hint about PageRank Sculpt, why Google said if you add nofollow on external links, then still you lose some PageRank, again it also says PR is passed to external links, Then why you completely ignore that as well?

    I come to my question after 2 years, I am not noob in SEO.
    Last edited by Arjun3315; Aug 11th, 2017 at 01:38 AM.
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    Hi Arjun
    Can you solve this equation

    PR(A)= 1-0.75+0.75(0)=0.75


    according to me the answer of this is 0.25


    Also calculated wrong
    PR (A)=(1-0.75)+d(0/0)
    PR(A)=0.15
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    Originally Posted by sksharma
    Hi Arjun
    Can you solve this equation

    [/FONT][/COLOR]

    according to me the answer of this is 0.25


    Also calculated wrong
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I added first different value for dumping factor and forgot to change value, thanks for spotting error.
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    Where do I start.....

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    2. Google normal PR equation.
    Give me a break, I understand the formula for PR. Same as a great multitude of members here.
    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    This is initial PR you get whenever you create a new page.
    I am not going to argue with you that a new site created today, this minute, this very second has a PR of exactly 0. Why, because Google never posted "Fractions" of PR. It was 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, that was it. No 1.5 or 2.34

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    This is not a equation Google use to calculate PR, they use this form.
    Not going to argue with you there, I copied and pasted the wrong one.

    You made two statements.....
    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    I am 100% sure, you have no idea about PR equations. Just analysis your self, The are using inbound links and outbound links to calculate PR.
    This is "Wrong" ! Only In Bound Links are use to calculate the PR of any site. No where are your outbound links counted when calculating your sites PR. Please if I am wrong, show me where in the equation your outbound links are used to calculate your PR !

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    3. Can you give me any hint about PageRank Sculpt, why Google said if you add nofollow on external links, then still you lose some PageRank, again it also says PR is passed to external links, Then why you completely ignore that as well?
    Are you now changing your view point?
    That was exactly my point. Google made it so any link on a page that left the page was counted in the amount of total PR any link could pass. Now PR can not be sculpted with the nofollow attribute.

    Where as before you stated in your post.
    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    3) I am 100% sure, you have only few ideas about PR sculpting, you have never think, Why PR sculpting comes? Because Most of webmaster use nofollow tag on trusted links, to keep PR flow on own website, so Google think, if webmaster doing this continuously, then how can we know, that page is trusted or not, because webmaster want to keep PR flow on own website by adding nofollow tag on external link, hence they change it's algorithm, and they write post. If you add nofollow tag on trusted links or any type of links, then your PR will sculpt, i.e.
    Any link whether it is a "nofollow" or not, dilutes PR. Sorry, but if you had 10 outbound links, 5 are "nofollow" and your site has a PR of 5 then the most PR any link could pass would be .5 not 1, why, because all links count, even links that are labeled "nofollow". So its PR 5 divided by 10 links not 5 links, the nofollow attribute is superfluous, it makes no difference.

    Hey mate, you are stuck in the ashes of past SEO techniques. This does not work anymore.

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    I come to my question after 2 years, I am not noob in SEO.
    Mate I said you are wrong and you are. I stand by that statement. No offense, don't take this as personal.
    .
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    LOL you're mixing my past argue with current one. Let's end this discussion.

    Original PR is not 1 or 2

    Original PR is like

    xx to xxx value is consider as PR 1
    xxx to xxxx value is consider as PR 2

    I have read tons of PR white paper and you don't understand simple thing.

    If PR is flow from one Page to another only in internal links then what about site like reddit, it means the more pages they create the less PR will pass to those pages.

    Whatever here anybody said that PR is calculated, it's true, I am agree with you. But I want to say whenever you create a new page, you also get reward of some PR. That's what I want to say. And let me quit now.
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    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    LOL you're mixing my past argue with current one. Let's end this discussion.
    I am sorry, I thought it was all the same thread. My mistake.

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    I have read tons of PR white paper and you don't understand simple thing.
    I am glad you are well read on the subject, it still doesn't change the fact I still think you're wrong.
    I am not a Mod here, don't want the responsibility, but when I see bad info or poor advice, I speak out against it.

    I think part of the problem here is the language gap. I have no clue what your native language is, but your command of english is lending to some of your confusion.

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    If PR is flow from one Page to another only in internal links then what about site like reddit, it means the more pages they create the less PR will pass to those pages.
    I never said that anywhere btw. I said all out going links count towards link dilution, ie maximum value any link could pass.

    Originally Posted by Arjun3315
    Whatever here anybody said that PR is calculated, it's true, I am agree with you. But I want to say whenever you create a new page, you also get reward of some PR. That's what I want to say. And let me quit now.

    I agree... leave it lie
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    A lot of the time writing out the equations can be confusing to a lot of people so I went on the hunt for a image to explain this



    The diagram does not take into account any damping factor and assumes 100% of page rank is passed which it is not but just for people who want to understand how page rank is passed around a site I thought this makes it quite clear.
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    Right now I have asked question to John Mullear - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l_E5b801Pw (After 9 min of hangout start)

    Do Google reward some pagerank initially when new page is created and Pagerank is flow when you link out?

    John does not say anything special here, but by listing his advice you get idea, Pagerank is given to quality webpage.

    Whatever docs you read about PR calculation is true, I am agree, but Google reward new pages as well. That's how PR should work.

    And please see the matt cutts first FAQ on pagerank sculpting.

    If I run a blog and add the nofollow attribute to links left by my commenters, doesnít that mean less PageRank flows within my site?
    A: If you think about it, thatís the way that PageRank worked even before the nofollow attribute.

    Your theory does not make sense at all, what if new website create content and does not have any backlinks, it means their PR is zero? If sites have lot's of webpages then PR will flow to internally, it means the more pages you create the less PR will left, does it make sense?

    There are lot's of documents as well, but here I am stuck to explain PR is always passed when you link out -_-
    Last edited by Arjun3315; Aug 11th, 2017 at 03:42 AM.
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    John does not say anything special here, but by listing his advice you get idea, Pagerank is given to quality webpage.
    Other than that there is no way to know what google is using as a measurement, your all just guessing. Get good links from good sites and you be able to see whats working by analyzing your stats.
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    OK let's do reverse things, to correct you guys?

    Do you believe PR is flow(Divided) when you link internally(Not out/external link)?

    You should believe on it, because there are lot's of white paper display same thing.

    Now let's assign someone link to my homepage, so I get some PR and that website will not going to lose any PR(That's what you all guys think).

    Now suppose the PR of my homepage is 4 and it has 2 internal links, so both pages will get 2 PR(let's forgot any function which keep some PR to page itself).

    Now If I add another 2 webpages on that and link to it, it means my PR will get lower from 2 to 1. It means by adding new content I am loosing some PR. Does it make sense you?

    Now if you think like me, say, Initially you get some PR whenever a new page is created then you can connect all dots.
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    You are treating PR like money that is spent or used, this is not the case

    if a home page has a PR 4 and has 2 links on it then yes its 4 / 2 that is passed to the receiving pages but it does not use up page rank from the home page, the home page still has a PR4.

    I agree links are links internal or external it does not matter, the flow of page rank flows regardless.

    To be fair though now we cant view page rank we just cannot test anything other than as test-ok suggests.

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