Google Optimize Tips Thread.

I would like to propose a new thread for SEOchat. A Taboo Tip of the week from our Leader Darrin! Exclusive for the users of SEOchat.

Just odds and ends, things new users or even experinced users may or may not know. Don't have to give us the cow just a glass of milk here and there!

Anyone else think this is a good idea?

Chris

I cant imagine too many saying no lol.

although I can imagine Darrin or anyone else for that matter are not going to part with anything too meaty.

The problem is, as soon as a particular methodology becomes well known, it fails to be effective.

Also, it wouldn't take long if Darrin was to start posting some "Taboo" SEO tricks here that the the PR bar most likely sitting on top of this page would be completely gray or white with a month or two ;-)

You may< trhink I jest, but It has happened to other forums I know of (admintricks.de/phpBB2/index.php).

This sort of thing is however best done in a members only area, blocked from being spidered with a robots.txt.

Some people like myself make their living from their SEO know-how. It doesnt make sense to make it too public either in dribbles or at once.

I totally agree with you Webby, perhaps instead of posting a thread in a public forum it can be a private board or an exclusive thing for a newsletter. I agree about giving away anyhting too meaty, however thats why we are all here, for the low down on search engine tips and tricks. To share our nowhow with others and make us more effective in our roles as SEO's. Power is in numbers not individuals. The more of us working towards our common goal I feel the more effective we will be.

Chris

unfortunately not too many want to share their intricate seo knowledge, including me...

i dont mind lending a hand and sharing some small ideas and tips but I am not going to give away the real reason my sites rank well and so high...

want an email seo tip every month? go to trafficology, already have a seo newsletter and then Darrin doesnt have to waste him time and tips....

Points taken

What about a thread dealing with issues that you should not do?

Given the implications of Spamola actions with Google and the "folklore" nature of some of the wild tips floating around in other quarters, I believe this would have tremendous value.

<Then Darrin's rankings take a giant pop upward >

I think a thread dealing with what not to do is a good idea. I'll bet I do something that i shouldnt atleast 3 times on my site. Thats just because im a rebel and like to break the rules though !

-Josh

Now youre talking Steve! lol

Seriously though, what is disheartening and really makes you wonder is the fact there is an ENORMOUS amount of spam of all kinds prevalent for any term remotely competitive.

Whether it be hundreds, or in some cases literally thousands, of automatically generated doorway pages with the obligatory javascript redirect to homepages, or hidden text / cloaking, these pages still get through the Google algorithm checks and indeed take up many, not just top rank 1 places, but the complete first page in Google SERPS. This is no exageration, top 10s on competitive terms are at least 50% spam in my experience. In some cases it is close to 100%. By spam, I mean SEO methodology that clearly breaks Google's guidelines which could result in banning or pr0.

What kind of signal does this send an SEO that follows guidelines and does not commit to methods which puts their clients sites at risk?

In truth the majority of spam is carried out by Joe Webmaster who has seen it work with competitors, analysed the code and thought "hey! If he can get away with it, why cant I?!" this kind rarely know what keyword density is from a hole in the ground. I'm optimizing clients sites knowing that to get to the top 10, I am going to need to drastically change either my clients body text, technology, design etc. in order to compete with a spammer that has not had to pursuade a marketing manager that a certain phrase needs to appear more often in body text. It riles me that even with reporting spam, it is in my experience rare action is taken, as Google (actually understandably) wants to find an algorithm solution rather than manually penalizing. There is so much spam out there that Google would need a team of literally hundreds whose full time task would be to clean up their index.

I now know why so many SEOs no longer actually do hands on SEO but do the seminar and in house consultations. A lot of top names in SEO don't make their money from actually optimizing sites, but consulting on how to optimize a site, syndicating articles, doing company consultation etc.

I'm considering going that route myself as today, a professional SEO who folowa guidelines, is increasingly not enough when clients competitors do not have the design copy, web technology restrictions I would have. It is simply an unlevel playing field which currently favours cloakers, spammers etc. who are of the impression that the risk is worth taking.

I've ranted enough but any fellow professional SEO that does not spam the engines I'm sure understands where I'm coming from here.

<end_rant> :-)

Nice reply Webby - when your sites give you your income - you don't fool around with them

Just for the record;

I'm not opposed to doing a weekly thing really. I'm not too opposed to sharing some information regarding tips either but as stated before in this thread (and others), Giving away seo tips is proving not to work for 2 reasons:

1. Us SEO's will find it harder to get work (although SEO is only 1 of my services). If I make it harder for other SEO's to get work, I'm going to make it onto their hate-list .. and I'm too nice a person to know that I'm on someone's hate-list.. I don't like having enemies!!

2. If I give out tips for free (or even if people were to pay for them) then the market would become saturated, which would make those tips unefective in the long run as search engines would promptly change their algorithm as soon as they saw masses of people using particular techniques. Also in the long run your site might rank more poorly for implementing such tips, which would make my clients very unhappy given that they too would be loosing rankins if they were using the same tips.

Also lets not forge the sheer fact that most of the things in the SEO world are real-time experiments, nothing is a guarantee of success.

There are many googd SEO's out ther who would be just as qualified & experiences to give tips in SEO (I'm looking in Gringos direction!!).

I do like the idea of things not to do however. I just might do an article on that and publish it to my website, which is under continual development (www.darrinward.com).

A Lot of good points - but are we not all in the same business ? I learn a lot from this and other forums, but I've also got 20+ years in the data processing business and I can usually work out a good tip from a bad tip.

I am more than happy to share what little info I have, when it comes to something syntx or programming related, but when it comes to being an SEO it's an art, not a science.

Many years ago I helped write code for a search engine that was going to make loads of money (I got paid in stock !, which is now worth nothing), but I still have to take a wild arsed guess as to how the math guys (not the programmers) at google are going to do their thing.

Some members here rent out their services as SEO experts - great way to make money, some make their living out of getting their sites well ranked.

But the guys who trawl these forums and then put on seminars - charging for their "insight" are really no better than the chaps who advertise on late night TV on how to get rich quick. If it was that easy then these guys would be doing it. But they make more money telling other people how they think it can be done.

Yep we're all there - I started with Fortran IV on IBM 360/30 's - and that's waaaa..y back! - and I don't use any maths to try and work out the format - just art! or arse!

In my experience you need to wide eye the scene and direction rather than looking too deeply at the algorithms as they can change that overnight - witness whats happening now - but the general direction is more important

Good stuff Question: does the SEO Industry have a Trade Group or Organization of some sort which screens members, enforces eithics, includes standards of behavior, and perhaps serves as a complaint and compliment hub?

I'm asking because I couldn't find one that seemed of any value when I recently performed some "silent consulting" for a long time training client who was looking for a SEO geek.

You would not believe or maybe you would believe some of the BS this client recieved. I did the "gig" for free as I did not want any hint of conflicits and I felt that it helped our relationship long term. I sleep very well at night

I silently rejected over 85% of the applicants within 5 minutes and spent some time banging my fist on the desk with the client who was filled with thoughts of instant this and that, guarantee, and all the other stuff I'm sure you FT SEO geeks are aware of. If I would have had a simple list of things not to do it would have made it so much easier. Dear Client: read the list. Study the list, print the list, put the list under your pillow. Then call me and I will exspand on each and every point.

We finally retained an in-house SEO geek who directs/supervises and has final say with all site design (think USABILITY) copy, site marketing, updates, tweaks, and then this person handles the SEO tweaks himself and monitors the results. Iv'e already seen some fights which I predicted but those are just growing pains as "Sally" learns from the SEO pro not to slam 100K of graphics on a given page

Edit: I met the SEO geek in the final welcome aboard alomost interview. Why? I wanted to see what he said and how he said it in person. Deep eye contact, body language, accountability, terms, and all the stuff I think you need via an in-house person on retainer. I diddn't say much. Just watched the responses to the "talking points" Including a few "trick questions" which I woild prefer not to go into. ----> Think reputation

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