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    #16
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    I agree that if you are an established site that is ranking well, Google ignores when someone spams you.

    Keep monitoring hopefully no penalty, those are insane numbers!
  2. #17
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    A little late to the game on this, but I have had clients in the last 6 months get penalized for external link manipulation. Google never said you won't get penalized for it, so I don't know why that misinformation is being spread around. While their algorithm has improved, and can determine which links are spam without using the disavow tool, there is a difference between unnatural links and spammy links - like paid guest posting vs pingboms.

    If you don't believe, start guest posting and see what happens. And yes, if you are using link manipulation in any away, and your site goes under manual review, you will get penalized.
    Last edited by Digital Marketeer; Sep 28th, 2017 at 08:54 AM.
  4. #18
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    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    Google never said you won't get penalized for it, so I don't know why that misinformation is being spread around. \
    You might want to Google that
  6. #19
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    I have, and Gary's Illeyes' comment is being wildly misunderstood. He said, "Traditionally, webspam algorithms demoted whole sites. With this one we managed to devalue spam instead of demoting AND it's also more granular AND it's realtime. Once the rollout is complete, I strongly believe many people will be happier. "

    Again...talking about webspam which is completely different than if you intentionally go out and buy paid guest posts and link farms. Google's algorithm still flag these link manipulation practices, and you can still get penalized...hence why I said spam and unnatural linking are 2 different things.

    Think of it this way. Google's algorithm is now able to identify spammy links that are not in your control, but will still penalize you for unnatural links that look like they are in your control. Moz alludes to this in this post about whether or not we should still be using the Disavow Tool. https://moz.com/blog/do-we-still-nee...isavow-penguin
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    By the way, the answer on whether or not to use the Disavow Tool is still "yes" according to Gary and John @ Google.
  10. #21
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    Originally Posted by Digital Marketeer
    By the way, the answer on whether or not to use the Disavow Tool is still "yes" according to Gary and John @ Google.
    It's a little more complicated than that. I don't have time to search for it, now, but there was an EARLIER tweet that stated the disavow tool was not needed. But that is was suggested we still use it to help Google identify link spam. Saying that their recommendations haven't changed, to me points back to this earlier tweet. I have been given enough bad advice by SEO bloggers that I don't totally rely on them. But if I have misunderstood this, I would like to know.
    Last edited by DirectHits; Sep 28th, 2017 at 04:18 PM.
  12. #22
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    Well John & Gary have both said that the disavow tool is not used for Penguin, since it's not machine learning. However, I agree with Moz in the sense that even if it was, there's obviously good reason for Google to still recommend the disavow tool. Not to mention that algorithms are still written by man, and if it's not machine earning, it's still likely to make a mistake. That being said, I can't recall nor find one tweet from anyone at Google that said you don't need to use the disavow tool. Instead, I believe many people made that assumption based off of tweets like the one I copied from Gary earlier....and it just went viral. So...speaking of bad advice from SEO bloggers...

    And that is why the part I really want to emphasize is that if your site is under an SEO attack, or you have been intentionally using manipulative, black-hat link building practices - definitely disavow. I repeat, webspam is not the same as unnatural links, and I have clients in the last 6 months that unfortunately prove this point.
  14. #23
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    Dig,

    I hear you. I try not to repeat what bloggers say, but actually saw the tweets myself. It was a while back, so my memory is foggy. But it was a series of tweets, if I remember correctly. (From John). I may try and look for them another time, but I am just glad I don't have any clients with unnatural links so this really isn't my problem. Not my area of expertise.
    Last edited by DirectHits; Sep 28th, 2017 at 04:24 PM.
  16. #24
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    The more I dig into this, the greyer it becomes. Here is the one of the posts that helped me originally make up my mind about the disavow tool and Penguin. It suggests, as you have mentioned Digital, it might not be needed for Penguin because it now only devalues the links.

    If you haven't read this, it is very interesting. Ana Hoffman made a post that Gary concurred with, saying a site with spammy links pointing to it won't be penalized by Penguin like it was in the past. The spammy links will just be devalued.
    https://www.seroundtable.com/disavow...uin-22771.html

    But I have also found a later tweet by John, recommending to disavow if you feel you are being hit by negative SEO.

    ~scatches head..


    Conclusion: Google has made a lot of conflicting statements on this, but it appears that sites can still be hit by negative SEO.
  18. #25
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    Lol...what things with Google aren't often head scratchers? Nice find though. At the end of the day, it just seems to me to better be safe than sorry, and maybe not stop using the disavow tool altogether.

    Comments on this post

    • DirectHits agrees
  20. #26
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    As far as I know, the only possible Google Penality comes from PBNs that have been identified by google and de-indexed. If you had a significant amount of links from PBNs, I still think sites loose rank on that ground. Apart from that I have personally tested link spamming using blog comments, "web-2.0" links, forums blasts, profile page links etc. But I could not affect even small website competing at a town level. So I think you should be safe.

    I read it somewhere, and I agree to it, that Google now identifies links farms better. Its like they already have a database of domains sending out tons of spam links / irrelevant links / automatic links. It may even contain all automated sites that have no form of control or QC for posting content. They all account as spam. So if your links happen to be from those links farms they are totally discounted at their domain level.

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    • Digital Marketeer agrees : Yes sir. Link Farms & Paid Guest Posting can get you automatically penalized pretty quickly now.
  22. #27
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    I had a client a few months back that was paying a link building company $700 per link, and all of the links were part of a PBN...It blew my mind...

    Of course, quickly told them to cancel their service, and I went to work disavowing everything they built.
  24. #28
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    Surely this is an attack if it is what you claim it is?
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