#1
  1. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    0

    Does order of words matter?


    I remember checking keywords some time back & google provided the info that "web design chelmsford" & "chelmsford web design"
    received the same average searches per month - I presumed this meant that Google saw these 2 search terms as the same thing and
    would treat them as one.

    But while my home page is more optimised for "web design chelmsford" (the term is in the title tag, H1 etc) I sit higher for
    "chelmsford web design".

    Any idea why this is? Was I wrong to think Google viewed the 2 terms the same?
  2. #2
  3. rod@missionop.com
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens FL 33410
    Posts
    15,150
    Rep Power
    1896
    Originally Posted by beelzebomb
    I remember checking keywords some time back & google provided the info that "web design chelmsford" & "chelmsford web design"
    received the same average searches per month - I presumed this meant that Google saw these 2 search terms as the same thing and
    would treat them as one.

    But while my home page is more optimised for "web design chelmsford" (the term is in the title tag, H1 etc) I sit higher for
    "chelmsford web design".

    Any idea why this is? Was I wrong to think Google viewed the 2 terms the same?
    Your order of words makes no difference on how competitive a specific phrase is... the competitive level is what it is.
  4. #3
  5. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    193
    Rep Power
    114
    Fathom is correct - the order of the words isn't going to impact how competitive the keywords are, which will bear on why the site ranks better for one vs another.

    In regards to your broader question, Google DOES view different word orders as 2 different keywords, but it's not uncommon for inversions/variants like the ones you identified to have the same search volumes, especially for longer-tail, niche queries. However, I wouldn't recommend overly optimizing for both by trying to add/stuff both variants into the title tags, headings, body copy, etc.

    Post-Hummingbird, Google has gotten much better at understanding synonymity - if you choose to optimize for one consistently, Google is going to understand your pages are still relevant for related queries, even when you may not have specifically optimized for them. This is why a lot of people are noticing that Google is modifying their how their Title Tags display in the SERPs - they're tailoring them to the queries for improved CTR but they can do that only because they know the modifications are still highly relevant to the listed page.

    These are reasons why when clients are trying to rank for, say, "kitten pajamas", I'd now recommend that instead of trying to optimize for 5-10 near identical variants of the same user intent (which used to be fairly standard practice), they broaden the scope of words on the page and try to include synonyms that Google knows co-occur and are related to their main terms: "feline pajamas", "baby cat pajamas", "bed time clothes for small cats", etc

    Hope that helps!
  6. #4
  7. rod@missionop.com
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens FL 33410
    Posts
    15,150
    Rep Power
    1896
    No matter how Google defines their algorithm you are best to ignore phrases and focus only on individual words as searchers' eyes are drawn to the words they typed and not synonyms of what they are searching for so if the words are in the listing that is the more important part as the searcher will see what they typed so long as it is in the first 70 characters of the title element and 150 characters of the description.

    It is also worth noting that "what you see" is not likely what created the ranks... On-page merits have little to do with ranks... ranking merits are usually found on pages that point to the ranked page.
    Last edited by fathom; Jul 19th, 2014 at 02:49 PM.
  8. #5
  9. Super Moderator
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    121
    Originally Posted by fathom
    Your order of words makes no difference on how competitive a specific phrase is... the competitive level is what it is.
    If the order makes no difference, why aren't the rankings identical?

    Comments on this post

    • NewDelhiSEO agrees
  10. #6
  11. No Profile Picture
    Banned
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    0
    Actually the word order in keyword phrase does not matters but it matters in your search result. More customer friendly keyword can increase your no. of page searches.
  12. #7
  13. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    New Delhi
    Posts
    18
    Rep Power
    0
    No google don't treat two same phrases having different word order as a same phrase, every keyword treated as a unique one if it's order is changed then it'll be treated as another keyword and search results from that keyword will have different ranking on the SERP.
  14. #8
  15. No Profile Picture
    Registered User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0
    You were wrong, those are two different keywords that is why there search results are different
  16. #9
  17. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    46
    Rep Power
    2
    I don't really care so long as the words are there for Google to pick up. When I do write meta tags like titles and descriptions, it would matter at times, like if I write a very long title or description, I make sure that the keywords start off the sentence. That way I know Google would pick it up before cutting it on search engine results.
  18. #10
  19. the mango demon
    SEO Chat Adventurer (500 - 999 posts)

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    New Delhi
    Posts
    616
    Rep Power
    395
    Fellas, Go and read up the wikipedia article on Latent semantic indexing and you will know what are search engines doing with search phrases. The science of categorizing documents based on relevance to text blocks has gone much further than than questions like : Does order of search phrases matter?

    Here are some excerpts from Wiki article that might give you some idea how search phrases are treated these days.

    What is LSI?
    Latent semantic indexing (LSI) is an indexing and retrieval method that uses a mathematical technique called singular value decomposition (SVD) to identify patterns in the relationships between the terms and concepts contained in an unstructured collection of text. LSI is based on the principle that words that are used in the same contexts tend to have similar meanings. A key feature of LSI is its ability to extract the conceptual content of a body of text by establishing associations between those terms that occur in similar contexts.
    Note the text in bold.

    Why is LSI advanced than your question - Does order of search phrases matter?
    LSI overcomes two of the most problematic constraints of Boolean keyword queries: multiple words that have similar meanings (synonymy) and words that have more than one meaning (polysemy). Synonymy is often the cause of mismatches in the vocabulary used by the authors of documents and the users of information retrieval systems. As a result, Boolean or keyword queries often return irrelevant results and misinformation that is relevant.
    Why Google and other Document processing Engines are fans of LSI?
    LSI is also used to perform automated document categorization. In fact, several experiments have demonstrated that there are a number of correlations between the way LSI and humans process and categorize text.[5] Document categorization is the assignment of documents to one or more predefined categories based on their similarity to the conceptual content of the categories.
    SEO Professionals in NewDelhi It is different. Don't believe me? Go check yourself.

Similar Threads

  1. Domains - Fusioning words - Does it Matter?
    By CheckMater in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Oct 16th, 2010, 03:26 PM
  2. Do key words matter in your domain name?
    By My_boy_Jack in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Feb 20th, 2009, 09:30 AM
  3. Does Keyword Order in Domain Matter?
    By Kiasuman in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Feb 1st, 2008, 08:30 PM
  4. Misspelled Words Matter?
    By crisenhoover in forum Keyword Research
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Oct 10th, 2006, 12:37 AM
  5. Misspelled Words Matter?
    By crisenhoover in forum Other PPC
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Oct 2nd, 2006, 11:34 AM

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo