Miva PPC

How is MIva as ppc? i tried to used them 3 times but every time it seems like i spent $100 a day and not much traffic as that shows in their logs, any one has the same impressions?

We have extensive experience in PPC for over 3 years now. We noticed a big change when they changed from Findwhat to Miva.
We received much more clicks per day for the same budget but much less sales. Besides that, they have introduced many features that confuse novices and are aimed at gaining more money for very low quality traffic. They have removed the search engine and it is not possible anymore to determine who your competition is and how they behave. Unless you analyse the net carefully and are able to find sites that drive traffic through miva (traffic partners) such as find.fm

We have recently decided to completely drop Miva from all PPC marketing. The were getting the bigger part of our budget, so we are looking forward to make big savings.

They were terrible for me when they were still Findwhat. I actually came here just now searching on Miva because Miva keeps emailing me account summaries and I was going crazy trying to remember when I had ever used Miva.

Last time I used Findwhat for something I was averaging 3000 clicks per sale when the same keywords were converting every 40-60 clicks or so in 7Search ( now 7 Search doesnt work for me either when it used to ahve the higest ROI among PPCs) Overture,etc.

Interesting thread...

We were also using Miva/FindWhat for over two years. In December 2005, we had to suspend/cancel our campaigns. Their clicks began going through the roof and we could not verify the increase in our log files.

Needless to say, you will not be seeing any credits from them w/ respect to increased unverified clicking activity...

Any suggestions on beneficial/profitable "second tier" PPC engines?

I'm at home right now stewing over these 2nd tier PPC companies because after spending valuable time on the phone and my logs, filtering fraud, once again I see thousands or errant clicks from the same IP's, so I see spending more time later at the office fighting with these companies to get my money back.

The problem with Miva is that they do not offer filtering on out of US clicks...period.

Lycos and Enhance will only implement these filters if you contact them.

Lycos has good filters for non-US traffic, they have other manual filters, but this endeavor requires log analyzation and importing you fraudulent IP's in to their filters. So anotherwords, reactive not proactive. "Yeah you had $1000 of fraudulent clicks, here's what you can do about it before you spend more money.

Enhance is just under-manned and you have to spend much of your time just monitoring their results to try and cut off abuse as it happens.

LookSmart was a little weird. I complained, got $1200 in credits and a call from a rep. He said he would put me in a "top 10%" network. This worked okay, 310 clicks and 12 conversions. But the next day he asked if I'd like to "Open it up". Obviously with these results I said hell ya!

This morning I have an acct balance of $0 when last night at 6:30 it was $786, and my logs are showing a rediculous amout US-based fraudulent clicks.

Hey all you ppc employees, here's an elementary assumption...now pay attention; when a site regularly gets 500-600 clicks and jumps to 5000-6000 overnight, its probably click fraud. How about YOU let ME know for once. Don't make us send 5 emails and leave 4 voice mails to get it "looked" at!!!

I manage 700 individual campaigns over 20+ networks...the best advice I can give you is get superior log analyzation software, a headset to prevent the carpel tunnel your bound to get from the phone calls attempting to get your money back, caps on every account without 'auto-renew' turned on, and a stress ball.

Once I get into the office I am going to assemble a list for another PPC manager that I will post here, of obviously bad US fraud enabling IP's that might save you a headache or two.

Bottom line on Miva and Lycos...avoid like the plague. They don't care about you or your business, only their own income. Their customer service is the absolute worst and after being ripped off $500 by Miva and $1000 by Lycos, I will continue to bad-mouth them and furnish real proof for all who ask.

Gary

jready, I am pooling several ppc managers together to share this type of info. If your interested pm me...otherwise, with good keyword analyzation 7search, enhance, and looksmart are good if you establish a relationship with a rep at each company and analyze your log EVERY day.

Gary

If you find a legit IP here let me know. These are IP's that hit my server more than once in a 19 hr. period during a major influx of bad traffic.

I have the non-US fraudulent IP's here:
http://ppc-manager.blogspot.com/

I'll also be posting updated lists as I get them. Please submit yours so we can all help out eliminating this problem.

US IP's

12.10.145.194 (Very Bad)
12.103.159.12 (Very Bad)
12.104.41.120 (Very Bad)
12.107.247.200 (Very Bad)
12.109.34.167 (Very Bad)
12.129.88.30 (Very Bad)
12.144.99.114 (Very Bad)
12.144.99.114 (Very Bad)
12.150.148.102 (Very Bad)
12.150.148.119 (Very Bad)
12.150.240.66 (Very Bad)
12.160.149.70 (Very Bad)
12.160.217.27
12.161.83.185
12.162.175.155
12.166.28.203
12.168.170.180
12.173.168.2
12.175.19.165
12.176.88.28
12.181.72.15
12.184.228.50
12.201.108.32
12.201.200.18
12.201.62.151
12.202.121.236
12.202.180.180
12.202.216.186
12.202.242.246
12.202.37.161
12.202.50.0
12.203.138.158
12.203.181.111
12.203.190.175
12.203.40.211
12.203.41.52
12.205.1.3
12.205.107.119
12.205.170.109
12.205.93.242
12.206.0.202
12.206.38.101
12.206.43.135
12.206.75.164
12.207.158.191
12.207.200.235
12.207.47.199
12.208.127.124
12.208.163.239
12.208.190.236
12.208.193.182
12.21.203.153
12.210.211.28
12.210.240.39
12.210.251.230
12.210.255.220
12.210.55.41
12.210.80.146
12.211.118.23
12.211.13.38
12.211.51.145
12.211.92.2
12.211.94.93
12.214.12.81
12.214.123.96
12.214.171.86
12.214.213.179
12.214.227.207
12.214.228.71
12.214.32.88
12.214.34.45
12.214.53.152
12.214.59.146
12.215.102.152
12.215.109.249
12.215.139.45
12.215.221.90
12.215.248.68
12.215.43.70
12.215.77.29
12.216.1.163
12.216.146.95
12.216.208.131
12.216.231.134
12.216.253.123
12.216.37.139
12.217.118.179
12.217.152.225
12.217.230.223
12.217.42.98
12.217.43.180
12.217.59.236
12.217.86.97
12.218.143.150
12.218.216.251
12.218.230.231
12.218.239.85
12.218.248.198
12.219.178.210
12.219.196.59
12.219.225.98
12.219.228.216
12.219.65.9
12.219.69.220
12.219.86.222
12.219.86.245
12.22.214.66
12.220.107.107
12.220.128.144
12.220.135.198
12.220.166.27
12.220.196.150
12.221.160.102
12.221.226.171
12.221.244.243
12.221.244.243
12.221.42.125
12.221.62.77
12.221.9.234
12.222.42.180
12.222.47.190
12.222.47.190
12.222.56.55
12.222.99.62
12.223.134.213
12.223.184.224
12.223.55.1
12.226.104.145
12.226.19.122
12.226.241.178
12.226.63.14
12.226.73.74
12.227.134.43
12.227.137.216
12.227.137.216
12.240.25.160
12.30.83.189
12.36.234.134
12.40.182.5
12.5.189.13
12.65.72.56
12.73.239.20
12.76.90.136
12.77.48.18
128.112.139.71
128.112.139.96
128.112.139.97
128.112.139.97
128.143.137.249
128.143.137.249
128.189.217.247
128.193.249.68
128.242.162.67
128.82.21.75
128.97.68.232
129.119.101.42
129.128.145.33
129.130.101.154
129.32.168.85
129.44.172.5
129.44.180.146
129.44.243.88
129.81.190.88
129.89.187.116
129.98.70.133
129.98.70.133
130.13.224.64
130.13.41.90
130.15.225.193
130.212.18.210
130.49.1.47
130.76.32.15
131.191.70.169
131.233.150.2
132.189.76.10
132.208.26.222
132.208.26.27
134.139.212.77
137.118.161.158
137.151.174.12
137.198.250.27
137.99.133.200
137.99.155.216
138.163.160.41
138.88.158.132
138.88.171.51
138.88.207.17
138.88.255.101
138.89.120.123
138.89.138.217
138.89.24.158
139.142.48.167
139.182.13.183
139.55.22.159
139.84.68.28
140.247.107.65
140.247.60.100
140.32.16.104
141.149.186.168
141.149.63.29
141.151.237.43
141.152.245.178
141.152.71.229
141.152.71.229
141.154.181.230
141.154.187.41
141.154.23.166
141.154.33.59
141.154.65.185
141.154.72.214
141.155.142.221
141.155.63.6
141.156.40.6
141.157.103.103
141.157.162.15
141.157.232.205
141.157.47.150
141.157.77.7
141.157.83.108
141.157.89.122
141.158.117.70
141.158.2.221
141.158.214.19
141.158.71.246
141.217.48.50
142.161.216.187
142.161.52.230
142.161.93.114
142.162.56.40
142.162.61.203
142.163.162.136
142.163.163.166
142.163.29.154
142.165.123.98
142.165.171.113
142.165.224.95
142.166.153.155
142.166.232.88
142.167.15.55
142.167.152.196
142.167.152.196
142.167.218.79
142.167.41.6
142.167.63.208
142.167.78.233
142.169.153.202
142.177.194.115
142.177.212.80
142.177.220.39
142.177.250.145
142.177.99.21
142.179.158.135
142.179.33.150
142.179.46.160
142.179.94.51
142.231.68.128
142.33.88.237
142.59.111.232
142.59.59.241
142.68.90.245
143.44.65.180
143.55.235.31
144.160.98.31
146.163.223.51
146.184.0.119
146.187.159.141
146.7.200.197
147.253.11.130
147.4.172.56
148.4.71.37
148.63.42.219
148.63.5.38
148.63.52.51
149.111.120.218
149.76.162.22
150.156.210.157
151.142.239.11
151.196.116.206
151.196.32.4
151.196.32.83
151.197.144.114
151.198.45.229
151.199.127.242
151.199.133.38
151.199.134.169
151.199.19.90
151.199.254.163
151.199.43.123
151.200.117.77
151.200.29.215
151.200.46.176
151.201.12.215
151.202.103.126
151.203.12.234
151.203.247.202
151.203.26.149
151.203.39.38
151.203.48.12
151.204.134.118
151.204.194.62
151.205.153.135
151.213.104.194
151.213.115.169
151.213.147.65
151.213.186.174
151.213.6.117
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.163.100.202
152.8.122.127
152.8.88.135
153.104.189.140
155.225.109.144
155.225.150.21
155.98.35.4
156.143.70.89
156.34.34.214
156.34.82.189
156.34.85.227
157.242.213.10
158.130.6.254
158.91.202.195
160.102.80.5
160.111.254.11
160.227.25.88
161.184.189.92
161.184.194.107
161.6.215.211
162.40.190.8
162.40.193.83
162.40.53.153
162.40.96.145
162.83.188.27
162.84.184.154
162.84.219.97
164.76.179.235
165.138.8.160
165.166.231.48
165.247.204.249
166.102.78.247
166.172.103.239
166.82.151.128
166.82.94.152
167.1.128.100
167.230.38.118
167.230.38.118
167.230.38.118
167.230.38.118
168.122.80.65
168.215.194.239
168.215.68.69
169.200.204.17
169.229.50.13
169.229.50.15
169.229.50.16
169.229.50.3
169.229.50.4
169.229.50.6
169.229.50.9
169.237.207.167
170.146.91.6
172.128.1.43
172.128.151.164
172.129.170.8
172.129.225.51
172.129.84.102
172.131.57.216
172.132.172.28
172.132.205.55
172.132.206.155
172.132.252.78
172.133.189.183
172.133.206.185
172.134.218.4
172.135.132.60
172.135.223.24
172.136.208.213
172.137.128.101
172.137.62.110
172.137.71.46
172.138.105.121
172.139.10.102
172.140.26.98
172.144.239.127
172.144.251.229
172.148.223.29
172.148.237.98
172.151.217.25
172.152.115.200
172.152.94.139
172.154.108.235
172.154.235.86
172.155.159.71
172.157.149.66
172.160.151.9
172.160.195.150
172.161.72.59
172.162.204.188
172.163.211.187
172.163.228.249
172.164.185.15
172.164.236.153
172.164.58.207
172.164.74.5
172.165.181.80
172.166.159.72
172.166.217.199
172.167.187.61
172.167.247.140
172.167.61.245
172.168.144.82
172.168.38.78
172.168.51.13
172.170.177.165
172.170.188.21
172.182.166.132
172.184.135.168
172.184.211.146
172.184.34.151
172.184.5.163
172.184.93.222
172.194.143.165
172.195.140.166
172.195.40.216
172.196.148.251
172.196.191.42
172.196.197.201
172.197.216.136
172.198.149.215
172.198.68.215
172.200.197.80
172.203.190.154
172.208.182.81
172.208.229.11
172.208.50.203
172.208.50.203
172.213.204.53
172.213.96.63
172.214.143.71
172.215.230.251
192.112.26.6
192.150.115.150
192.154.62.209
192.17.11.73
192.195.29.121
192.248.248.66
192.91.171.42
198.110.192.99
198.146.100.4
198.146.60.183
198.146.70.92
198.155.145.88
198.166.240.80
198.190.156.119
198.202.162.100
198.209.19.148
198.209.42.124
198.209.42.124
198.209.42.124
198.254.16.201
198.53.119.66
198.53.13.6
198.53.185.49
198.53.247.38
198.53.58.21
198.53.99.41
198.69.0.253
198.70.5.225
198.77.199.145
198.97.67.59
199.111.68.204
199.126.131.222
199.126.174.237
199.126.187.243
199.126.215.107
199.126.236.222
199.126.237.132
199.126.27.169
199.126.31.99
199.192.2.25
199.224.122.153
199.224.67.186
199.232.16.153
199.232.16.153
199.72.169.82
199.91.33.254
200.126.122.12
200.161.71.219
200.83.9.165
201.123.71.156
201.133.192.139
201.154.128.196
203.166.123.178
204.107.47.109
204.111.114.251
204.111.162.73
204.111.225.64
204.112.176.180
204.116.214.186
204.116.237.159
204.117.156.239
204.118.66.121
204.120.202.109
204.128.192.8
204.14.146.97
204.193.182.121
204.244.94.33
204.255.26.9
204.26.126.78
204.26.30.5
204.42.20.145
204.65.34.23
204.73.103.253
205.157.148.193
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.188.116.204
205.201.116.97
205.208.173.43
205.213.180.231
205.234.33.154
205.237.144.7
205.237.36.71
205.240.139.243
205.246.142.75
205.250.191.103
205.250.219.249
205.250.219.249
205.250.219.249
205.251.146.172
205.251.209.220
205.251.227.178
205.251.26.36
205.251.32.133
206.114.33.16
206.116.16.118
206.116.188.99
206.116.36.145
206.130.135.30
206.130.137.231
206.132.233.5
206.132.94.6
206.146.73.187
206.17.170.95
206.170.104.42
206.174.74.36
206.188.244.60
206.192.204.172
206.229.48.219
206.231.76.249
206.240.24.20
206.240.24.20
206.255.146.129
206.255.86.21
206.45.173.212
206.53.160.178
206.53.66.12
206.54.192.114
206.62.11.5
206.63.117.235
206.74.102.92
206.74.46.237
206.8.190.7
207.112.13.37
207.112.64.136
207.119.205.83
207.119.36.220
207.119.82.84
207.119.99.114
207.12.182.40
207.126.48.11
207.134.153.241
207.134.200.140
207.134.217.44
207.134.223.73
207.138.210.118
207.160.142.107
207.161.5.167
207.161.6.131
207.162.166.150
207.168.251.228
207.168.30.34
207.170.223.149
207.172.137.22
207.172.231.110
207.173.6.120
207.177.58.125
207.177.58.125
207.177.58.125
207.177.58.125
207.177.58.125
207.177.63.227
207.190.68.6
207.191.131.147
207.192.232.96
207.192.251.120
207.193.206.20
207.195.64.5
207.200.116.74
207.200.116.74
207.200.116.74
207.200.116.74
207.213.88.194
207.216.166.68
207.216.178.153
207.216.224.90
207.216.24.102
207.216.81.119
207.216.89.127
207.224.58.209
207.225.233.4
207.225.65.91
207.230.194.247
207.231.96.235
207.233.58.100
207.235.15.24
207.237.220.125
207.237.244.39
207.237.250.120
207.243.122.104
207.253.115.202
207.253.165.139
207.255.126.93
207.255.131.137
207.255.194.249
207.255.196.239
207.255.20.13
207.255.20.206
207.255.20.206
207.255.213.210
207.34.72.221
207.38.182.132
207.40.151.166
207.46.50.74
207.6.110.158
207.6.193.190
207.6.243.128
207.62.8.164
207.65.107.89
207.69.1.211
207.69.137.13
207.69.139.10
207.69.140.20
207.74.196.20
207.75.227.158
207.81.171.244
207.81.248.163
207.91.15.46
208.1.112.127
208.102.22.250
208.104.89.209
208.14.110.225
208.14.152.158
208.168.225.139
208.187.244.33
208.187.74.107
208.188.85.90
208.190.198.67
208.222.45.77
208.253.244.2
208.254.22.50
208.28.34.11
208.29.6.5
208.36.117.178
208.44.11.26
208.51.212.213
208.53.197.74
208.57.226.50
208.57.237.67
208.57.64.231
208.57.68.136
208.58.66.26
208.60.76.238
208.61.117.109
208.61.27.111
208.61.6.159
208.62.125.146
208.62.152.236
208.63.160.10
208.63.175.107
208.63.181.75
208.9.112.231
208.96.74.222
209.102.131.23
209.102.150.83
209.103.198.24
209.103.203.108
209.107.125.180
209.112.51.10
209.121.51.59
209.124.221.154
209.134.140.69
209.136.136.210
209.139.251.61
209.146.84.12
209.150.248.58
209.158.56.230
209.161.216.66
209.161.220.5
209.169.125.11
209.169.153.53
209.169.153.53
209.169.153.53
209.175.47.162
209.188.32.171
209.192.39.39
209.193.40.167
209.195.153.162
209.196.192.7
209.197.49.249
209.204.126.138
209.208.112.6
209.209.140.19
209.21.44.2
209.213.198.25
209.215.39.28
209.216.241.26
209.226.132.104
209.240.116.119
209.240.205.62
209.242.141.25
209.248.46.236
209.26.217.148
209.29.44.214
209.31.126.94
209.33.68.130
209.37.15.50
209.37.93.144
209.40.17.6
209.58.229.10
209.62.196.154
209.74.200.52
209.74.233.175
209.74.234.147
209.76.71.144
209.76.81.128
209.78.171.131
209.89.194.245
209.89.244.48
209.89.94.28
209.92.129.126
209.92.141.140
211.111.97.225
216.0.1.90
216.108.218.240
216.114.105.110
216.114.171.102
216.115.240.44
216.12.83.156
216.124.94.5
216.126.162.154
216.126.166.121
216.13.51.231
216.13.51.231
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24.91.191.95
24.91.23.175
24.91.46.237
24.91.59.79
24.92.173.193
24.92.182.156
24.93.107.87
24.93.108.50
24.93.127.120
24.93.174.123
24.94.237.86
24.94.3.203
24.95.63.116
24.96.138.138
24.96.153.176
24.96.67.31
24.98.188.173
24.98.192.253
24.98.225.176
24.98.45.157
24.98.46.180
24.98.93.152
24.99.109.117
24.99.110.194
24.99.128.42
24.99.150.234
24.99.159.51
24.99.5.246
24.99.68.216
24.99.71.3
24.99.92.197
38.148.156.20
4.131.143.94
4.131.37.153
4.152.54.136
4.154.81.146
4.155.193.130
4.155.198.91
4.155.93.14
4.157.29.216
4.157.29.216
4.161.217.64
4.167.160.186
4.168.228.125
4.191.37.26
4.224.105.90
4.225.138.201
4.227.137.103
4.227.160.129
4.228.240.137
4.23.225.227
4.230.186.120
4.235.54.80
4.236.237.32
4.242.159.220
4.243.173.98
4.244.141.208
4.245.16.113
4.245.242.168
4.245.75.123
4.246.150.70
4.246.48.248
4.247.167.133
4.248.224.189
4.250.153.42
4.252.92.178
4.41.231.146
4.88.162.165
41.250.15.232
60.52.13.123
60.52.42.238
63.13.233.92
63.135.7.237
63.146.104.148
63.148.191.48
63.150.149.227
63.151.132.133
63.161.222.242
63.163.109.123
63.163.57.20
63.166.88.236
63.169.199.42
63.17.253.147
63.17.51.181
63.18.111.82
63.19.85.92
63.200.161.35
63.200.192.126
63.200.251.250
63.201.33.27
63.207.212.30
63.207.238.112
63.21.77.149
63.211.201.5
63.211.201.5
63.22.182.100
63.223.83.158
63.224.228.202
63.224.92.135
63.225.248.24
63.225.87.209
63.227.186.127
63.227.2.250
63.229.196.227
63.23.28.55
63.23.87.154
63.230.0.31
63.231.42.145
63.232.184.198
63.233.19.170
63.233.20.197
63.235.205.182
63.235.87.130
63.236.33.198
63.237.91.55
63.238.106.51
63.24.14.122
63.245.145.142
63.249.88.160
63.250.65.177
63.65.191.46
63.67.222.241
63.69.16.254
63.87.108.181
63.96.0.210
63.96.34.31
64.108.207.76
64.108.223.254
64.109.49.218
64.110.227.131
64.111.151.116
64.113.26.109
64.113.26.109
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.12.116.139
64.126.164.1
64.128.104.201
64.13.100.167
64.13.105.133
64.131.198.90
64.131.203.241
64.131.53.185
64.132.182.3
64.135.216.113
64.136.192.233
64.136.26.235
64.136.26.235
64.136.27.228
64.136.49.226
64.139.229.166
64.146.28.212
64.146.28.212
64.146.28.212
64.148.230.45
64.149.127.23
64.149.22.218
64.149.23.1
64.178.141.41
64.179.46.48
64.180.19.3
64.180.24.16
64.181.80.30
64.185.144.123
64.185.171.211
64.19.114.56
64.19.129.185
64.19.83.90
64.192.46.203
64.193.8.221
64.194.106.135
64.194.22.6
64.195.70.80
64.203.157.77
64.216.106.41
64.217.225.29
64.218.124.99
64.219.31.223
64.219.77.9
64.222.154.34
64.222.163.241
64.222.35.23
64.222.41.21
64.222.45.197
64.222.92.31
64.223.184.167
64.223.185.123
64.223.228.38
64.223.240.91
64.228.144.228
64.228.147.140
64.228.230.49
64.228.37.95
64.228.66.109
64.228.84.46
64.228.91.61
64.229.109.46
64.229.118.206
64.229.121.42
64.229.127.235
64.229.154.27
64.229.159.156
64.229.237.247
64.229.239.240
64.229.26.238
64.229.51.209
64.229.64.127
64.230.43.61
64.230.78.102
64.230.84.208
64.231.135.125
64.231.14.179
64.231.141.239
64.231.199.188
64.231.229.121
64.231.241.91
64.231.241.91
64.231.245.138
64.231.47.100
64.231.54.3
64.231.63.104
64.231.73.134
64.233.173.66
64.233.173.66

Here's the list I'll update daily:

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