From #5 to #62

I lost my #5 ranking in MSN because i changed my keyword density from 12 % to 6 % in order to rank higher in Yahoo. How to i get my ranking better with out having such a high keyword density? I have NO traffic now Please advise
Thanks,
PTDirect

I guess i will work on back links and adding content to work on my SERP's in MSN . I dont want to change the keyword denisty back to what it was because i think that it was classified a Keyword spamming and thats why my rankings in yahoo are Horrible. I have not confirmed this yet because it is taking yahoo along time to index my new page. If this doesnt work then i will go back to my original page with the 12% density

Stick to your plan in the second post! Read the forum and set up your optimization on page and site based upon this.


Then work on your back links. This will take care of both Yahoo, MSN and Google. Work hard, work long, it will work!

Cheerios

A keyword density of 12% cannot be considered "spam" by any decent search engine. I have pages up to 30% of keyword density (without any keyword stuffing or innatural text) ranking on the first page for many good keywords in Google, MSN and Yahoo.

Keyword density is not even a ranking factor. You dont' need to decrease it to rank in Yahoo.

Well i cant figure out why i am ranked in the 700's for my keywords "Personal Trainer". There are pages ranked higher than me with only 2 backlinks and one or two pages in the index. I have to be doing something wrong and thats the only thing that made since to me at the time. How long does it take for Yahoo to re-index my page so i can see if it affect my site?
So There is no such thing as Keyword spamming?
If Key word density does not matter then why did my ranking drop so much in MSN?
Thanks for you help!!!!
Ptdirect

one of my sites jumped off the map today with no reason... weird.

MSN seems to have a trend of doing this. My site was ranked #2 then a month went by and bam...ranked #15. A week has now gone by and now im crawling back up to #9 right now.

Mind you, i changed nothing. MS must still be tinkering with there new toy. I wouldn't change a thing if i were you guys. Just wait till things settle down.

One thing with SEO is to learn patience. Otherwise you will never figure out what's working and what isn't.

Yes, this is exactely whats been happening to our site. On Nov 11 when beta came out we were #1. Then in December we dropped to 3rd-4th page and stayed there for about 1 month. In January we jumped back to #1-2 and stayed there. Not very steady though. Constant flux. From 1st to 5th. Sometimes twice a day. Now on Friday March 11 we dropped to 13th. Also very fluid. It can go up to 8 and then to 17th.

ptdirect, thanks for offering me an opportunity to revisit this.

KW density is relevant to the number of words in the target.

If you have a one word phrase then your density level will be significantly higher due to the nature of how many ways a single word can be used. The higher the word count in your phrase, the lower the acceptable level of density will be.

Whether considering readability, or imho, serp position, as a percentage of total of document word count. Percentage is based squarely on word pattern. i.e. "Home Insurance Quote" is not the same phrase as "Quote Home Insurance"

You could readily use these two phrases in the only sentences in the page and have a (what I would consider) staggering density level. Two unique phrases and if you pull "Quote" out and use it as "Quote Insurance" you have now created a new word pattern. This does not even account for Randfish and the semantics which could be used.

If you were to type "Get your Home Insurance Quote here as we have some of the best Home Insurance Quote options for home buyers looking for a Home Insurance Quote." You have now created a spam sentence. Call it what you will, its intent is clear.

Chances are, if you use this, you will be using "Home Insurance Quote" with more frequency within the document. This will result in your page having a highly unnatural word pattern Vs. the total words contained within the paragraph and page, which will most likely show up in your density levels vs the total words on page, vs the number of words contained within the pattern. This will be subjecting your site to a panalty some say don't exist.

Just because one see's a variation of this in search does not mean it is not being done by a site who is manipulating the ability search engines have of identifying patterns for spam or for that matter any penalty being applied was not overcome using other seo techniques.

We see this manipulation with cloaking all the time, yet no one doubts search engines will penalize you for it.

This is definitely my opinion.

Cheerios

Thanks For your Help. I will definetly stick to my original plan and work on other SEO tactics to increase my rankings.

I love this Forum!!!
Ptdirect

How can I tell my keyword/phrase saturation? Is there a good tool for this?

http://www.seochat.com/seo-tools/keyword-density/
This is what i use!!!

what are the ratios you would recommend for both MSN and Yahoo? I'm a measly 2.8 for my targeted phrase.

Hi,
I am analyising my competiors for my top keyword and trying to do what they do and i suggest u do the same!!! I am looking a KW Density Backlinks and Site Saturation.

sometimes the answer is right there in front of your face. Site Saturation is a new one to me, I'm guessing how often your keyword phrase is used throughout the entire site?