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  1. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by Matt Cutts
    http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/fall-weather-forecast/#comment-87795

    "PageRank is the primary factor determining whether a URL is in the main web index vs. the supplemental results, so I’d concentrate on good backlinks more than worrying about varying page layouts, etc."
    The fact that you can’t see supplemental results anymore itself but you can see PageRank and backlink sampling suggests these are the ways of seeing the difference and the best course to generate better return for your website is the purchase expired domains and then 301 deep-redirect these to make more of your domain remain out of supplemental.

    No matter what link building strategy you do – to not get deep links into your website is ranking suicide and the problem with get deep links is costly (link bait being the best) or most places offering say a review will not deeplink. Thus expired domains are an ideal alternative.

    You gotta pick and choose what domains to buy though so you can keep a reserve of cash for an alternative solution. This is extremely important.

    There are lots of auction places but starting at Godaddy.com (or your own registrar if they have a domain auction) is best.

    Places like pool.com, snapnames.com, deleteddomains.com, expireddomains.com, wehavethem.com, etc. are in the business of making money on expired domains – they tend to cost you more but you get privileges that you don’t get in public auctions. Additionally, most private auction that have expired domains that were previously promoted online – are likely well beyond your budget (tending to start at $1,000 and upwards a million for brand value).

    Mike Davidson has one of the best guides for picking up brand name domains - http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2005/03/how-to-snatch-an-expiring-domain - but don't use that approach here - it'll cost too much.

    The greatest reason your want to start at your local registrar you really need to match-up with low end sellers.

    e.g. Godaddy.com is a "low end seller" -- they only want to make a few bucks on top of old customer’s domain renewal fees and don't care about PageRank-- They "MUST SELL" and these tend to be denoted by "BUY NOW"!

    These are the one you don't need to bid against others.

    Buying domains isn’t without the need to do research so you don’t pick up a dud. While I have lots of specialty tools for this I needed to develop a solution that included mostly “freebie tools” or tools already on most computers for other purposes (these will be pointed out as we go along)

    While I hate to say this, “PageRank without relevance is enormously valuable”. Remember that I started this as a way to curb pages going to supplemental results. PageRank doesn’t directly make a difference in ordered ranks but it does make a difference to the number of internal pages linking to rankable pages and that “indirectly makes PageRank invaluable to ranks”.

    You mainpage doesn’t need to be PR5 – PR10 your deep pages that have viable ranking terms need to be PR3 or more (PR2 you can get away with it).

    So as I develop this guide – don’t think I mean 301 redirects to your homepage… you need them on other important pages.

    Comments on this post

    • channel5 agrees : some excellent info.. surprised less people spotted it
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  2. #2
  3. Saving 4 a "giant laser"
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    I've been searching goDaddy for domains with my main term ("surety"), but only found junk...then I tried multiple related terms ("auto", "construction", "bond") which turned up more junk. The best site I found so far had 3 scraper links all from the same site. However, I can't imagine that being worth the $5 or time to purchase and set up.

    What am I doing wrong? Or do you simply need to search for hours to find the true gems?
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  5. rod@missionop.com
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    First - what if your competitors are going this as well - do you think they will leave the "most appropriate domains" for you to scoop up...

    Surely you website is about 'more' than 3 words.
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  7. rod@missionop.com
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    Note on PageRank
    So you got a link from a domain where the page your link is on is a PR4 page. What you receive is an equal share on the total amount (less .15%) of link leaving that page (both internal and external links). It’s rare to find a page at PR4 with less than 50 links on it so with a simple PageRank Calculator that actual translates to a midway PR2 to your page…

    Thus in the search for domains – existing PR2 domains are at the same value as that PR4 page link (and these usually costs $5 PLUS the domain renewal fee so $15 for a dot.com). It’s worth noting that PR3 domains can be acquired for about the same $15 (for a dot.com) which is equal to a PR5 link.

    Note: please find on the web a general interest “free PR5 link” that is easy to get! ...not to often.

    For expired domains whatever links created the PageRank for that domain – you can be sure those link are in main web index – supplemental pages do not pass PageRank.

    To start your search off look at the broadest terms possible for your domain. If you’re a SEO Firm (example only) you aren’t likely to find qualified domains for phrases as “Search Engine Optimization” or “Search Engine Marketing” all that often but you will find viable domains for:
    • Search
    • Engine
    • Optimization
    • Marketing
    • Ranking
    • Promotion
    • Services
    • Internet
    • Link
    • Meta
    • Density

    And anything else you have “content-wise” on your domain.

    Then you start researching what are viable domains. (Obviously starting with the most to least related – Services and Internet (in this example) are really broad.

    To do this you need:
    • HTML Editor (WYSIWYG)
    • Text Editor
    • SEOCHat’s PR Lookup
    • Marketleap.com Link Pop
    • Archive.org


    Once you have done a search expand the results to maximum displayed (GoDaddy is 500 listings), and also order results in order of Price making ? offers ? and then $5 BUY NOW first -- then right click, select all, copy, and paste into your html editor in design mode. This keeps the table format and you can select the column that all the domain names are in; copy and paste into the text editor.

    Select to view link numbers and then copy the first 100 in SEOChat’s PR Lookup, and copy PR2 domains or more into another text file, and go on to the next hundred and repeat.

    Once you have a fair list of domains plug them into MarketLeap Link Pop and review Google and Yahoo backlinks (just because Google doesn’t show any don’t be fooled that there are not any. Google does dump the backlinks if too much time passes between expiry and auction but having done this a couple hundred times now, if you host and add a sitemap for minimal pages – it will credit the link within a few days.

    Be sure to click-through many of the backlink sites and seek the anchor (it’s best to open the source code and source for the URK (no http://www.) if the URL isn’t in the code:
    1. the link was removed
    2. the website was redirected to another and that domain has the link
    If you check a variety of backlinks and the URL isn’t in the source code – ignore it and go to the next URL.

    Comments on this post

    • jwbond agrees : Great time saving post, have my rep for the day!
    • tybi agrees : Here you go again... FATHOM RULEZ!!!
    • raz agrees : I am sure admin will love it if you were to consolidate a couple of these posts and wrote an article.
    • JagNet agrees
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    • seopeak agrees
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  9. Saving 4 a "giant laser"
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    Originally Posted by fathom
    Note on PageRank
    So you got a link from a domain where the page your link is on is a PR4 page. What you receive is an equal share on the total amount (less .15%) of link leaving that page (both internal and external links). It’s rare to find a page at PR4 with less than 50 links on it so with a simple PageRank Calculator that actual translates to a midway PR2 to your page…
    Great point! Keep in mind, by purchasing a domain you are not only getting the link juice from the home page, but also any other page with incoming links.

    Originally Posted by fathom
    Once you have done a search expand the results to maximum displayed (GoDaddy is 500 listings), and also order results in order of Price making ? offers ? and then $5 BUY NOW first -- then right click, select all, copy, and paste into your html editor in design mode. This keeps the table format and you can select the column that all the domain names are in; copy and paste into the text editor.
    You can also use MS Excel to keep it in column format. However, it can be a nuissance at times.

    Originally Posted by fathom
    Once you have a fair list of domains plug them into MarketLeap Link Pop and review Google and Yahoo backlinks (just because Google doesn’t show any don’t be fooled that there are not any. Google does dump the backlinks if too much time passes between expiry and auction but having done this a couple hundred times now, if you host and add a sitemap for minimal pages – it will credit the link within a few days.

    Be sure to click-through many of the backlink sites and seek the anchor (it’s best to open the source code and source for the URK (no http://www.) if the URL isn’t in the code:
    1. the link was removed
    2. the website was redirected to another and that domain has the link
    If you check a variety of backlinks and the URL isn’t in the source code – ignore it and go to the next URL.
    I have found about 7 PR2-PR4 sites for $5, but none have any links pointing to them in G, Y!, or MSN. I suppose the webmasters dumped the links and the PR is not accurate so the domains are now worthless? ...or did the engines drop the site from the index due to domain expiration and I can get still get some link juice out of it?
  10. #6
  11. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by jwbond
    I have found about 7 PR2-PR4 sites for $5, but none have any links pointing to them in G, Y!, or MSN.
    don't forget to check both no-www & www for backlinks... if the site had a 301 force it will show on one but not the other.
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    Originally Posted by fathom
    doesn't Google discount expired domains? ...and the answer is well - I guess so; but technically if there is a website there (and there is even in the expired phrase) from Google's vantagepoint a website is a website is a website.
    I read your post a few times but I don't understand this. It sounds like the answer is "yes but technically no" - what does that mean? I don't get how it can be both yes and no at the same time. I understand that a website is a website, but how does that affect whether or not or not Google discounts expired domains? Can you clarify?

    Also, what do you mean by "there is a website even in the expired phrase" - can't understand that.


    Originally Posted by fathom
    There are many dark areas to avoid... seller ghosting domains, not to mention you can quickly get into a bidding war, but with $1000 you can make a domain rank and develop prepetual revenue so you can keep doing it for free.
    Can you explain what you mean by "seller ghosting domains"?

    I looked up "seller ghosting domains" and "ghosting domains" in Google and came up with 0 results in both cases.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Cataclysmic; Jan 4th, 2008 at 05:11 PM.
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  15. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic
    I read your post a few times but I don't understand this. It sounds like the answer is "yes but technically no" - what does that mean? I don't get how it can be both yes and no at the same time. I understand that a website is a website, but how does that affect whether or not or not Google discounts expired domains? Can you clarify

    Also, what do you mean by "there is a website even in the expired phrase" - can't understand that.
    Go to any expired domain and click... what do you find?

    Can you explain what you mean by "seller ghosting domains"?

    I looked up "seller ghosting domains" and "ghosting domains" in Google and came up with 0 results in both cases.

    Thanks.
    Check out "redirect".
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  17. Saving 4 a "giant laser"
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    Thanks again fathom, it is always great to see someone thinking outside the box.


    I am curious though, are you finding that links to the domain decrease in time as the webmasters find that the domain has been 301'd? If so, one would need to continuously 301 additional domains to keep the link juice pointing to the main site up...or are the webmasters generally not checking their outgoing links in depth enough to notice? I would guess the latte, but am curious about your findings.

    Also, if the links decrease I guess it would be wise to review each 301'd domain at renewal to ensure links are still pointing at it.
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    Originally Posted by fathom
    Go to any expired domain and click... what do you find?
    What do you mean by "go to any expired domain and click"?

    I assume that when you say "go to any expired domain" you mean type it into the address bar of my browser. Done.

    ...and then when you say "and click" what do you mean? Click on what?

    When I try to go to an expired domain, Firefox says "Server not found". I do not see any website.

    I still don't understand. Does Google discount expired domains or not?

    Thanks.
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  21. Saving 4 a "giant laser"
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    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic
    What do you mean by "go to any expired domain and click"?

    I assume that when you say "go to any expired domain" you mean type it into the address bar of my browser. Done.

    ...and then when you say "and click" what do you mean? Click on what?

    When I try to go to an expired domain, Firefox says "Server not found". I do not see any website.

    I still don't understand. Does Google discount expired domains or not?

    Thanks.
    I think he is referring to the fact that when you click on a domain they are selling on godaddy that it brings up a temp godaddy holding page, which is still technically a website even though it is the same template for all. A website is a website...

    If so, then yes it does transfer link love to you when 301'd.


    However, I could have read what he said wrong as well.

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    • fathom agrees : You got it!
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  23. rod@missionop.com
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    An alternative to auctions is backordering.

    I use 10 backorder subscriptions at GoDaddy to scoop up deleted domains (technically a domain managed by a registrar that the account owner let go or about to let go and the registrar releases for sale).

    A backorder subscription runs about $18 - $20 (at GoDaddy) and allows GoDaddy to grab a domain on your behalf (usually from another registrar)

    The advantage of this method is the fact that you can acquire domains cheap that would likely cost $50 -200 or more if done threough a public auction.

    To start (one example only) SnapNames provides lists of about to be deleted and ready for auction domain first to the public (usually the next 5 days - lists available at https://www.snapnames.com/download.jsp - Not sure what it's source is but it isn't GoDaddy).

    If you're doing domain redirects for multiple sites you may wish to pay the $90 membership fee for SnapNames - but you don't need to...

    Run through the lists and find potential domains and check them in SEOChat's PR Lookup, check backlinks at Marketleap, and ensure the link anchor are on the backlink pages -- and once satisfied - place the domain on backorder.

    The moment the domain become available (usually 1:30pm EST) GoDaddy will attempt to capture it... if it does you got the domain for about $10 + registration fee.

    I've gotten quite a few PR4 domain and a couple PR5 this way where the auctions start at about $50 and easily run $200-$300.
    Last edited by fathom; Jan 6th, 2008 at 12:31 AM.
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  25. Roll the dice.. and live
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    If anyone is interested in providing the service/link building outlined by fathom for a fee please pm me.
    Live the moment
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  27. rod@missionop.com
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    Tricks & Traps


    Tricks & Traps to Avoids

    Sometime these are unintentional side-effects of owning multiple domains and/or poorly thought out multiple domain name strategies and in some cases plain old bad marketing (to your advantage... and sometimes intentional ploys to entice bidding wars.

    Due Diligence in research is so very important here. A $15 lemon is no biggy but whenever you need to hit the bid button more than once "THINK"... "did I do my homework correctly on this one?"

    • Ghosting... DNS edited to a popular domain and once backlink and PageRank of that domain is super-imposed - placed in auction (usually under BUY NOW! to unaware and less knowledgeable newbies)

      Ensure:
      • Backlinks make sense for the domain (if a wedding domain and Google appears to be all over the descriptions it a good warning)
      • Anchors on backlink page matches up with url code. e.g. The PR5 domain is goodsafetytips.com the auctioning domain that redirect to the PR5 is goodsafetytip.com (no "s"). Search code using the 'find' feature and the exact domain being auctioned (without www.). Another trick the auctioning domain extension is different.
      • Watch out for domain with only a single backlink domain or sitewide links from a single (or very few domains)... the owner auctioning can easily remove links from his own network - much hard to do this from other people's links.
      • With the previous - consider the likelihood of the links remaining after sale. I'll gladly risk money on a gov or edu link simply because these links are normally added for non-commercial reasons and therefore there is 'usually limited emphasis on website maintainance. On the other hand be wiery of directory links - that run auto-link checkers weekly or monthly - you can be sure a redirect will be detected and likely a deletion immediately after.
    • Tag-Team Bidders - competing bidder that have an invested interest to get you to bid higher. Hard to detect but can be curbed by not bidding until the last 2 minutes. An auction will never expire so long as bidders are bidding -- the auction will be prepetually extended by 2 minutes (5 minutes in some auctions) after the last bid. Additionally, pre-determine what your maximum bid will be before calling it a halt and bid it in the last 2 minutes... your bid will only go $5 more than the highest current bid and by doing this -- tag-teams don't know if their partner is the bid or not.
    • NO DOMAIN IS A MUST - don't get sucked into over-bidding. spending TOO MUCH on any one domain can qucikly kill this strategy partcularly - if you over bid and then find any of the previous tricks occurred.

    I'm sure I've forgotten some but the main point here is... DO YOUR BLOODY HOMEWORK!

    Comments on this post

    • Cataclysmic agrees : Great thread - can't wait to try this stuff out.
    • tybi agrees : Hey MODs, please give this guy a million rep points, because he has done his HOMEWORK and shared the results!!!
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    • lewisdb agrees : potentialy the most important thread that I have read to date. Thanks for taking the time with this!
  28. #15
  29. rod@missionop.com
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    Just a reminder – this isn’t an “all-encompassing guide” there are many, many different innovative ways to capture domains that are beneficial for your website whether they are directly related, somewhat related, indirectly or “absolutely irrelevant”… and all can still be quite beneficial.
    Here’s how.

    Not matter how much we say “PageRank is worthless for ranks”… PageRank is the #1, single most saw after quality for anyone looking for better links… and while I hate the philosophy I embrace it to provide a better “presumed service”.

    I said (when we started) “a link strategy that costs $1000 and would have perpetual return”. So far we have spent about $200 - $400 depending on how many “buy now” offers you got over bidding against others.

    That leaves $600 - $800 and you should start looking for a PR6 domain – whatever the name is.

    The reason you MUST do this is to create a supplementary revenue stream to continue paying for related and unrelated domains as your strategy grows.

    Once you capture this domain, setup a PPI directory (easiest), PPI Article Resource, PPI blog, PPI forum – PPI whatever that allows you to offer a “higher quality review” (with a link), higher quality literature (with a link), etc. and all 50% of the revenue goes to buy domains for your website and 50% for your review/literature so you can keep all your pages from going supplemental… you can be sure that you resource will have people flocking to pay for a solid “category related link”… and you get yours is well.

    A couple of PR5 domains may be easier/cheaper to acquire and will make a PR6 but of course you need to wait for Google to update PR for everyone to see the value of the homepage…

    I also recommend casting a wide category net on the homepage so that submitters will list in the more related category; rather than the highest PageRank, top level category.

    It’s worth noting that you can also get some great deals bidding on eBay. Seph acquired one for $129 where I spent at GoGaddy (auction http://www.tdname.com) $655 for another which I gotta wait until the 11th to receive the latter) both were PR6 but the audience at eBay (I presume) are looking for a finished website that includes a domain name and care less about PageRank and backlinks.

    Anyway, there are lots of risks and enormous rewards particularly if you capture the domain “immediately after the release” as Google doesn’t kill links immediately and I have had about 40% of domains (about 40 or so) that I verified and redirected immediately as it had the backlink available already and ranks for obscure phrases.
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