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    I think I'm going to link this on my blog as a resource for linkbuilding. LOADS of work Philip! You have put a big effort in for free; we commend you for that.
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  3. Philip@SearchBenefit.com
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    Originally Posted by seogoat
    I think I'm going to link this on my blog as a resource for linkbuilding.
    Thanks, that would be great! And let me know if you have any criticisms. I will spend a few hours sometime soon improving the text based on all the feedback.
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    I just wanted to say that this is really awesome work; I even learned a fair bit from just the first post. If that's any indication, I'm very much looking forward to making the time to read the rest.

    I haven't seen the "diversity of types of backlinks" idea expressed anywhere else, but it makes slap-your-head sense when you think about it.

    Edit: Thread stickied. This is too good to allow to get lost. :-)
  6. #34
  7. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by PhilipSEO
    Fathom, while I have you here, would you share your thoughts on backlinks' relevance to the target site? Is it important? And what is link relevance? E.g. do the on-page attributes of the linking page (title, context) matter at all? Some of use have been debating this, to no agreement here and elsewhere, to no agreement.
    Is relevancy important? ABSOLUTELY!

    Links don't work without pages for them to reside on AND the more "related" that content is to you the more valuable the juice you'll received.... in fact, the more links that link other "related" pages to the page you link is on the much more powerful the juice to you.
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  9. Philip@SearchBenefit.com
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    Originally Posted by fathom
    Is relevancy important? ABSOLUTELY!

    Links don't work without pages for them to reside on AND the more "related" that content is to you the more valuable the juice you'll received.... in fact, the more links that link other "related" pages to the page you link is on the much more powerful the juice to you.
    Thanks for this, it's my own sense as well, but there's a skeptical school of thought about this (which includes RandFish, who says in a post of his that he sees no evidence link relevance is important).
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    I tend to think of things from a web surfer's point of view rather than a search engine's point of view -- and in that sense, link relevance is important because if I'm reading about a topic and choose to follow a link to another page that seems to be on the same topic, I *expect* it to be on the same topic, and not something that's jarringly different.

    So link relevance is important to keeping your visitors happy, and maybe even helping with conversions.
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  13. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by PhilipSEO
    Thanks for this, it's my own sense as well, but there's a skeptical school of thought about this (which includes RandFish, who says in a post of his that he sees no evidence link relevance is important).
    ...and a link is a link is a link... a completely & totally off-topic link (let's say a static url reference only of 1234.com is related to what?) is better than not having it.
  14. #38
  15. Philip@SearchBenefit.com
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    Gazzahk, your feedback is great and I will soon go over my posts and make improvements incorporating some of the corrections implied by your comments. Meanwhile, I want to take care of this one:

    Originally Posted by gazzahk
    Phillip this is just racist. I have outsourced many things ‘east’ I live in the ‘EAST’… Do you think Americans are all honest and Asians are rippoff merchants… This advice is offensive..
    That's in response to my remark that I don't recommend "outsourcing link-building east." My friend, there isn't a racist bone in my body. I see though that my remark is an unfortunate one, and I'll take it out. For the record, I did qualify it with "unless... you really know what you are doing," but I see that it doesn't qualify it sufficiently. By the way, I am not American, although I sometimes sound like one. I was born in Moscow, very far east of where I live now, and I grew up in Russia and Moldova (most Americans have never heard of the latter). I don't recommend outsourcing SEO to those areas either (unless, again , one really knows what one is doing).

    But my statement was vague and awkward, and it partly resulted from trying to cover too much, say something about too many things. I am sorry it came out sounding offensive. I don't need to address outsourcing problems here (it's a-whole-nother kettle of fish). I'll just take out all the remarks about outsourcing. Surely it's possible to get scammed anywhere in the world, and of course there are some great SEOs in the East. (My respects to you not least of all.)

    I have recently engaged an excellent Indian link builder. He was hard to find. But before that, I interviewed three Indian companies about the possibility of outsourcing link-building to them. I asked them in some detail about how they do it and looked at many sample links that they have built. Most of it was bull****, although the price seemed attractive. They put your links on a lot of trashy link-farm-like pages with high and seemingly fake PR, they broker 2- and 3-way link exchanges, and they also do blog comments and hope you have never heard about nofollow. They offer a "6 month replacement guarantee" for their "quality links" (the ones not in blogs or forums) -- which, to me, spells that unless there are recurring payments, those links disappear in 6 months. Etc. etc. Anyway, my above remark was influenced by that experience. I am an SEO and I can tell the difference, but gullible non-SEOs can easily fall for such schemes. But you are absolutely right that this can happen anywhere. My apologies.

    Comments on this post

    • gazzahk agrees : Thanks for the clariforcation and info...
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    With cheap threeway link building services up until quite recently they could be used very effectively as a way of leveraging AT to internal pages on a strong site. ie throwing 20 or so targeted ATs links would see a page on a strong site go straight to the top of SERPs for those terms.

    In recent times this is a lot harder. My speculations are either the value of AT in determining relevance has fallen. ie google is now using on page text analysis and theme relevance from page/site where the link is coming from more thus AT less and/or there has been a further devaluation of peoples low quality link pages and thus the AT on these types of pages is not being considered.

    Either way these type of links are not as useful as they were before January this year IMO.
    Last edited by gazzahk; Mar 4th, 2010 at 06:16 PM.
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    I just found this tutorial, and thanks very much. We are working hard to increase links in the fashion described here. On thing that does bother me - if you work to have good quality content, it doesn't seem that G really values it - unless someone is linking to it. There are many sites with poor content, lots of links, and high rankings. We live in an unfair world!

    Question on links with business partners. Sometimes it just good business to include a list of people you do business with, or recommend, on your website - and for them to include you. It actually is a service for you clients to know who you (and they) can trust. Even if there is NO link benefit from this, can it be harmful to you in the eyes of G? Should you not do this in any way?

    Thanks.
  20. #41
  21. 魔鬼是我的背部
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    I just saw this thread via the dev shed weekly newsletter. The thread is very comprehensive, no doubt. But then i am a great proponent of simple approach to complex problems. I think link building is not as complex as 101, 1001, 10001 link building lists shows. It is in fact quite simple. Every site and market is unique and you can't have one size fit all link building list. My approach to link building can be summarized in just three steps:

    Step1: Establish your site as an authority in your niche (so that you are taken seriously by potential linking partners)

    Step2: Identify potential linking partners and develop good relationships with them (esp. authority sites)

    Step3: Determine content needs of your potential linking partners, develop killer contents/tools to satisfy those needs and finally make them aware of it.

    Comments on this post

    • gazzahk agrees : That will do it most of the time....
    Last edited by himanshu160; Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:38 AM.
  22. #42
  23. Philip@SearchBenefit.com
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    Himanshu-ji, sorry you didn't enjoy my scholastic efforts here. The other day you were ragging on Fishkin for being simplistic. Here you propose an approach that I think is great (indeed the best) for certain kinds of niches. I love your point about deliberately identifying others' information needs and fulfilling those on your site -- that's a gem that I want to work into the posts above.

    You are an intellectual and perhaps you are highly successful and have your pick of niches to work in, in which your link building philosophy thrives and brings great results. However, as I was telling Egol backchannel just now, many niches will have a limited use for the fantastic-content-driven approach to link-building, and for those niches I feel that yours is actually faulty (insufficient) advice. That is because many niches are fundamentally boring and intellectually primitive and far removed from anyone's information needs. You can write a fantastic blog about plumbing that will include the uses of plumbing in history, jokes about plumbing and plumbers, tips on unclogging your toilet yourself before calling a professional, and top 10 reasons why best plumbing practices are important, but no one is going to link to that stuff "naturally."

    Originally Posted by himanshu160
    I just saw this thread via the dev shed weekly newsletter. The thread is very comprehensive, no doubt. But then i am a great proponent of simple approach to complex problems. I think link building is not as complex as 101, 1001, 10001 link building lists shows. It is in fact quite simple. Every site and market is unique and you can't have one size fit all link building list. My approach to link building can be summarized in just three steps:

    Step1: Establish your site as an authority in your niche (so that you are taken seriously by potential linking partners)

    Step2: Identify potential linking partners and develop good relationships with them (esp. authority sites)

    Step3: Determine content needs of your potential linking partners, develop killer contents/tools to satisfy those needs and finally make them aware of it.
    Last edited by PhilipSEO; Mar 8th, 2010 at 09:08 AM.
  24. #43
  25. 魔鬼是我的背部
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    Originally Posted by PhilipSEO
    Himanshu-ji, sorry you didn't enjoy my scholastic efforts here. The other day you were ragging on Fishkin for being simplistic. Here you propose an approach that I think is great (indeed the best) for certain kinds of niches. I love your point about deliberately identifying others' information needs and fulfilling those on your site -- that's a gem that I want to work into the posts above.

    You are an intellectual and perhaps you are highly successful and have your pick of niches to work in, in which your link building philosophy thrives and brings great results. However, as I was telling Egol backchannel just now, many niches will have a limited use for the fantastic-content-driven approach to link-building, and for those niches I feel that yours is actually faulty (insufficient) advice. That is because many niches are fundamentally boring and intellectually primitive and far removed from anyone's information needs. You can write a fantastic blog about plumbing that will include the uses of plumbing in history, jokes about plumbing and plumbers, tips on unclogging your toilet yourself before calling a professional, and top 10 reasons why best plumbing practices are important, but no one is going to link to that stuff "naturally."
    Actually there is no nich which is fundamentally boring or intellectually primitive. It's all about your perception. Thing which may look boring to you, might be of great interest for someone else even plumbing.


    Check out this PR 7 website, a potential linking partner for a plumbing site:

    http://www.worldtoilet.org/


    This is the official website of "World Toilet Organization"
    Their job is to improve toilet and sanitation conditions worldwide.
    They have members from 58 countries.

    Check out another potential linking partner for a plumber:

    http://www.susana.org/

    This is the official website of 'Sustainable Sanitation Alliance'.They raise awareness of what sustainable sanitation solutions are and promote them on a large scale.

    Here is a list of other linking partners which can also help you in getting content development ideas:

    http://www.asiacleaningjournal.com/
    http://www.ecosan.org/
    http://www.makingcitieswork.org/
    http://www.sanicon.net/partners.php3
    http://www.toilettwinning.org/
    http://www.unicef.org/wash/
    http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/publications/facts2004/en/
    http://www.wsup.com/
    http://www.wsp.org/
    http://www.wsscc.org/
    http://www.sanimap.net/prj_sanimap/jsp/0010/0010_00_search.jsp

    the list is endless..........


    Conclusion: Sanitation industry is very big and tons of organizations are involved.


    Now comes developing the link bait. Whatever aforesaid organizations are trying to accomplish (i.e their goals, objectives, mission and vision) etc are their needs. Help them in fulfilling their needs and they may link back to your plumbing site. In fact i have gone over the top to get links for a local plumbing business. Just one or two links from the aforesaid sites are enough to rule both local business listing and regular local search for a long long time. Moreover i don't expect people to stick to my plumbing site and play toilet games or make toilet friends. I just want to be on top of search engines, so that they can call me straightaway. There is no flaw in my approach. If you give me any other industry, i will find out a way to get links, no matter how boring or dirty it may be

    Comments on this post

    • PhilipSEO agrees : I'm out of rep points for you but this is a brilliant response. I am too prone to confuse personal boredom with Wetlschmerz, but you are on the money re. plumbing, thanks. You are a bright SEO for sure.
    Last edited by himanshu160; Mar 8th, 2010 at 10:19 AM.
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    Originally Posted by himanshu160
    Actually there is no nich which is fundamentally boring or intellectually primitive. It's all about your perception. Thing which may look boring to you, might be of great interest for someone else even plumbing.
    I rather agree with himanshu. We all have our own views on the world but to do good SEO work we need to expand our points. Really there are no one niche that hasn't good circle of interested people.
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  29. Philip@SearchBenefit.com
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    Several great contributions since this threads inception, and each one broadens my conception of things. Thanks to all, keep am coming.

    Himanshu, with your permission I want to quote your response and the plumbing example substantially in the original posts, with proper attribution.

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