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    EGOL
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    Lost over 10,000 links.... but Rankings Held!


    I rarely start a thread....

    About four months ago I checked my backlinks at Yahoo! Site Explorer and was shocked to see that my site had suddenly lost over 10,000 backlinks! The attorneys in the next office probably heard me yell a loud, nasty curse (don't worry about those attorneys, they know all about cursing )

    I quickly started digging to see what happened. A popular blogger who likes my content had changed the right column of his website. In that column he had given site-wide links to four of my articles. Those links had been there since 2005 and 2006. This was a huge loss of links... a PR6 homepage... dozens of PR5 category pages... and over 2500 post pages. Now I had just four links - one to each article on PR3 post pages.

    The sidebar links to my site were followed links. I thought that the rankings of those articles that received all of these links would drop significantly.

    So far, four months later the rankings of all four articles are all in the same position.

    I think that this is a pretty good lesson... it shows that a ton of links on every page of a blog does not count for an awful lot. Getting just one link in a lowly post on that blog seems to carry about the same weight.

    So, if you are spending your days running from one blog and forum to another dropping links, you can quit after getting just one... spend the rest of your day blogging on your own site. You might be amazed at what happens.

    Comments on this post

    • abilitydesigns agrees : Thanks for sharing this ( and you should start more threads ! )
    Last edited by EGOL; Mar 26th, 2009 at 10:03 PM.
    * "It's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain
    * "Free advice isn't worth much. Cheap advice is worth even less." EGOL
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    I've always heard that the search engines heavily "discount" multiple links from the same domain, especially if the links go to the same page and have the same anchor text.

    Your experience seems to confirm that.
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    to take it even further

    they also discount links that come from the same IP

    There are a lot of people creating partner pages with the same hosting provider..and they link the sites together.

    Problem is that all the websites are on the same hosting provider with the same IP.
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    Originally Posted by banker0679
    to take it even further

    they also discount links that come from the same IP

    There are a lot of people creating partner pages with the same hosting provider..and they link the sites together.

    Problem is that all the websites are on the same hosting provider with the same IP.
    So let me get this right. Your saying that if we both have a site that is hosted on one.com

    I like your site and put up a link to it then that links worthless?

    Are you serious??

    Guess I had better stop targeting sites that are hosted on one.com that's a lot of sites.
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    why dont you try it then get back to us


    also you should read carefully.

    discount is different from worthless

    nofollow is worthless

    Originally Posted by lewisdb
    So let me get this right. Your saying that if we both have a site that is hosted on one.com

    I like your site and put up a link to it then that links worthless?

    Are you serious??

    Guess I had better stop targeting sites that are hosted on one.com that's a lot of sites.
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    EGOL
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    Originally Posted by banker0679
    nofollow is worthless
    Not in the "Reverse Psychology Algo"... which I believe might be in play to reward the good boys who play by the rules - and believe that their content is valuable enough to spend on pure advertising.
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    Originally Posted by banker0679
    why don't you try it then get back to us


    also you should read carefully.

    discount is different from worthless

    nofollow is worthless
    I don't need to try it. I have a site that only has links from associates that are on the same hosting plan and the site ranks fine for several competitive terms.

    I would be glad to hear any evidence that you have to support your views.

    I can read just fine thanks!
    Last edited by lewisdb; Mar 27th, 2009 at 06:21 PM.
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    ranking fine is not 'superior'

    checkout seomoz's tool

    there are many tools that will tell you from how many domains or ips the backlink is coming from.

    this is not an 'unknown secret'

    there are a lot of people who know about this
    especially website designers who construct many websites, and place them on different hosting providers, and put their links on the footer, and rank at the TOP.

    it's a whitehat/greyhat technique

    either you know about it or you think it's a myth

    my feelings are that you dont know about it
    the only way you would know it's a myth is if you have tried it already or know someone who has

    Originally Posted by lewisdb
    I don't need to try it. I have a site that only has links from associates that are on the same hosting plan and the site ranks fine for several competitive terms.

    I can read just fine thanks!
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    content is worth nothing if nobody sees it

    most people think that 'quality content' will rank you on Google.

    the only way content can be determined as 'quality' is if an actual human being is reading it

    robots cannot determine whether it is or not, but they can determine onpage/offpage optimization which is subpar

    this is why Google is trying to promote the Personalized search. the only way to determine if content is good is to get the traffic to vote on the content.

    the votes may not have an affect now...but somehow it soon will

    Originally Posted by EGOL
    Not in the "Reverse Psychology Algo"... which I believe might be in play to reward the good boys who play by the rules - and believe that their content is valuable enough to spend on pure advertising.

    Comments on this post

    • EGOL agrees : they might be counting those already
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    Originally Posted by banker0679
    ranking fine is not 'superior'

    checkout seomoz's tool

    there are many tools that will tell you from how many domains or ips the backlink is coming from.

    this is not an 'unknown secret'

    there are a lot of people who know about this
    especially website designers who construct many websites, and place them on different hosting providers, and put their links on the footer, and rank at the TOP.

    it's a whitehat/greyhat technique

    either you know about it or you think it's a myth

    my feelings are that you dont know about it
    the only way you would know it's a myth is if you have tried it already or know someone who has
    Well if its on of SEOmoz then it must be true!

    So the SE's are discounting hundreds of millions of perfectly good links based on the fact they are on one of the many hosting sites.

    I am basing my argument on real experience on a real site. So this is something I have tried. Your basing yours on something you have read.

    <edit>IMO you taking a much to simplistic view on this. Can sites linking to each other from the same hosting provider indicate that its a shared network and that the links are an attempt to manipulate the serps? Absolutely it can.

    Does this mean that all links from all sites on a similar set up are discounted? Again IMO No

    You are missing a key point-Trust

    If I get a link from a site using the same hosting provider and that site is an authority in its field and trusted by the SE's will that link be devalued? IMO it wont.

    The SE's use many sophisticated techniques to determine manipulation and they are to some extent capable of spotting manipulation. It would not make sense for them to discount links that are a true vote from one site to another.</edit>
    Last edited by lewisdb; Mar 27th, 2009 at 06:54 PM.
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    something i tried with my friend who is a web designer.

    i learned it, then saw other competitors doing it already.

    i asked my friend who designs websites to do it, and WALLAH!

    his websites increased in all rankings

    i tried that with 2 websites I have, and my rankings went from the bottom of page1 to #1-3 spots

    this isn't something i can show you but it only costs you a few bucks to find out yourself

    it's really common sense....

    do you really think Google is that dumb to give a lot of juice that are coming from the same IPs?

    Google has different factors for links
    they look at
    1. how old the backlink is
    2. if it's the same IP
    3. does it have anchor text
    4. is it contextual
    5. how many other links on the page...they divide the juice
    6. the website authority that is giving the link
    7. what type of website is giving the link (directory, articlebase, news, etc)
    8. is it nofollow or dofollow
    9. does it have external text

    and there's more!
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    Originally Posted by banker0679
    something i tried with my friend who is a web designer.

    i learned it, then saw other competitors doing it already.

    i asked my friend who designs websites to do it, and WALLAH!

    his websites increased in all rankings

    i tried that with 2 websites I have, and my rankings went from the bottom of page1 to #1-3 spots

    this isn't something i can show you but it only costs you a few bucks to find out yourself

    it's really common sense....

    do you really think Google is that dumb to give a lot of juice that are coming from the same IPs?

    Google has different factors for links
    they look at
    1. how old the backlink is
    2. if it's the same IP
    3. does it have anchor text
    4. is it contextual
    5. how many other links on the page...they divide the juice
    6. the website authority that is giving the link
    7. what type of website is giving the link (directory, articlebase, news, etc)
    8. is it nofollow or dofollow
    9. does it have external text

    and there's more!
    Read my edit above.

    do you really think Google is that dumb to give a lot of juice that are coming from the same IPs?
    Do you really think they would dismiss such links based on your assumptions?

    Also I am curious to know how your sited experience proves what you have said.

    You saw them do what? Change the hosting account of all the sites with links pointing to a site and the rankings improved, then transferred them back and observed those improvements disappear?
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    This guy 3 sites that had almost the SAME content in the top 5 positions for Google.

    I looked at the backlinks and they look like they were coming from other sites.

    I went back, and check about 20 sites
    I found out he owned ALL of them
    I also saw that he had a different hosting provider for each one.

    He created subsites that pointed to the 3 sites
    About 5 subsites for each domain.

    This is considered 'partner pages' which is against Google TOS, but the guy had it on different hosting providers, and didn't get penalized for it.

    I was hoping Google would smack him for duplicate content..but his rankings never changed...to this day he's got 3 sites in the top 7 spots.

    I had 2 domains....one old...one new
    I had them on the same IP, and had the old pointing to new.
    The new site ranked pretty well.
    They were not duplicate sites...but same themes with different content.

    I had a problem with a hosting provider (hostek) which had my websites offline once per week.
    I decided to try at least 2 hosting providers.
    My friend owns about 5-6, but never 'used them' like he should. I had him host the two websites, and the new site was ranked WAY HIGHER than it was before.

    At the same time we did mine we were doing his.
    His websites were now ranking high as well.

    Is it a great hosting provider?

    I think not
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    Originally Posted by EGOL
    I rarely start a thread....

    About four months ago I checked my backlinks at Yahoo! Site Explorer and was shocked to see that my site had suddenly lost over 10,000 backlinks! The attorneys in the next office probably heard me yell a loud, nasty curse (don't worry about those attorneys, they know all about cursing )

    I quickly started digging to see what happened. A popular blogger who likes my content had changed the right column of his website. In that column he had given site-wide links to four of my articles. Those links had been there since 2005 and 2006. This was a huge loss of links... a PR6 homepage... dozens of PR5 category pages... and over 2500 post pages. Now I had just four links - one to each article on PR3 post pages.

    The sidebar links to my site were followed links. I thought that the rankings of those articles that received all of these links would drop significantly.

    So far, four months later the rankings of all four articles are all in the same position.

    I think that this is a pretty good lesson... it shows that a ton of links on every page of a blog does not count for an awful lot. Getting just one link in a lowly post on that blog seems to carry about the same weight.

    So, if you are spending your days running from one blog and forum to another dropping links, you can quit after getting just one... spend the rest of your day blogging on your own site. You might be amazed at what happens.
    Hmmm interesting. There are some alternative explainations though 1) You articles ranked because you site strength is so much more powerful then those rankings below you the loss of juice was not enough to have an impact on the SERPs. 2) The user behavior data is now what is keeping your articles in there postion. Unless strong user behavior data suggest to a SE that people want change the SERPs stay fairly constant.

    I agree that sitewide links with identical anchor text going to same page are more or less treated as a single link. My view is that it is the overall link profile that is being used to determine serps and the loss of any specific link to a strong site will not have an effect on almost anything. I think trust comes from a site with a single link from anywhere on the site (assuming the page is in the index). Therefore extra links play a role only in relevance and PR transfer. Multiple links with the same anchor text do not make a site more relivent then a single link with that text. (The results would be different if the anchor textx were different on the different pages IMO) That only leaves PR transfer to be effected. Given that this only real relivence seems to be in having enough to keep the amount of pages on your site in the index even if you did loose some PR transfer it is unlikley to effect anything.

    Thus to me the most you would have lost from the change was some PR transfer. Even this I am unsure off as it would seem to easy for SEs just to only count the first/most powerful link and just discount all the rest.

    Thanks for sharing you data with us ....
    Live the moment
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    EGOL
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    Originally Posted by gazzahk
    There are some alternative explainations though 1) You articles ranked because you site strength is so much more powerful then those rankings below you the loss of juice was not enough to have an impact on the SERPs. 2) The user behavior data is now what is keeping your articles in there postion.
    Good ideas.

    For #1 I can say that I didn't hold top positions for every search term monitored. So, it was not like I held at the top of google with a big gap between me and the second site.

    Idea #2 could be possible. I really like the content on these pages. The blogger is an expert in the topic area and decided to give me sitewide links in his sidebar. On average, these pages hold a visitor for a few minutes.
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