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    link pages and site maps


    Here's another question. I need to build both a link page and a site map page for my sites. ( I know , I know, I should have built a site map while building my site but I was really a novice back then. )
    My questions are. How exactly does a link page help when you are sending out links, not bringing them in. I know in theroy you ask for exchanges. that is my motivation for doing it as other's are requesting exchanges, but there are also lots of good local sites I'd like to link to as they provide information many of my clients may like.(Most of these sites are non commercial like foresty,Park government sites ect) I am aware that it does not hurt my PR and that the PR is divide among the outgoing links but some folks requesting exchanges have hundreds of outgoing links on thier links page. Does it really benifit me? I mean 1/1000th of a PR can't make much difference can it? What other advantages to link pages is there?
    As for the site map. I know that it makes it easier for spiders to locate all your pages. Is there a certain way I should set it up? Should I name the page something more then site map? Will it help with PR in any way?Any input would be appreciated!
    Susan
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    Re: link pages and site maps


    Originally posted by "sward"

    As for the site map. I know that it makes it easier for spiders to locate all your pages. Is there a certain way I should set it up? Should I name the page something more then site map? Will it help with PR in any way?Any input would be appreciated!
    I think it's best to layout a sitemap in bullet-point format, with sections, sub sections etc. This way it will also make it easier for visitors to get straight to the info. Also, when naming the pages, give them a descriptive title and make the title a link to that page.

    One site that comes to mind is: http://www.iedr.ie/page.php?selection=sitemap&page=custom1 . It's a nightmare to navigate (doesn't work well in Oprea) so I always end up going to the sitemap to find what I want.

    HTH
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    Okay Thanks for the idea, however that page is in a frame. Maybe I have old info but I thought spiders didn't like frames. And if I understand things (which I'll never claim I do ;) ) Besides helping your clients in finding information quickly. The site map was to aid in the crawl.
    Any input on this ?
    Susan
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    Nope, I didn't make that site (can't you tell, it's a mess :p ), but I just gave the link as an example of a site map structure, text/links/bullet point format .
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    okay, Thanks I like the bullet point layout. Will be easier to do seeing as I have like 300 pages per site. Small to most you guys I know ;).
    Still wonder if anyone has an input about frames and Google though. I only use one frame on my site. It is a form that goes to the real estate MLS listings for our area. I have it set up so people can just drag a MLS number to the form and email it to me. Thus keeping them on our site. I only used keywords & SEO stuff on the main frame. Because I don't want the other individual pages to end up on top of the searches, saw another realtors site that was ranked #3 but it was the internal frame thus losing their URL.
    Anyone want to chime in on frames and Google? I know most of you use server based pages CSS and XML I tried to learn that stuff but too much for me right now. I still build it all the old fashion way HTML.
    Susan
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    Re: link pages and site maps


    Originally posted by "sward"

    Here's another question. I need to build both a link page and a site map page for my sites.
    I truely believe a links page is a very bad idea.

    Having your outbound links on your content pages is a MUCH better way to go.

    Content, content, content..... having a link on a links page no longer has near the relevance because of the content. If reciprical links are going to and from similar content, the link then increases for both parties. As well as when you put a link in your links page, are you pointing to there links page????????? No you point it to where you want or where they wanted you to put it, and same for you. Thus there being no resiprocal link.

    When asking for a resiprocal link, ask them to put it on a relevant page that will point to your relevant page. You may will come across the few that only will put a link on their links page, I have that trouble too, but take the good with the bad. If you ask nicely and show that your link is not in a links page I find they will put it where you want.

    I stand by my opinion and always will. Outbound links on all your pages.

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    Hey I'm all for it however it is getting the other parties to cooperate ;). One thing about my market ...Real Estate.... is that most people who have contacted me and NOT trying to sell me something do have link pages but since our business are the same just in different locations, I'm in North Carolina they are in California, we can link together, have similar keywords yet not be competitive against each other. So in other words, if I create a links page and they create a links page both have say Lakefront property as a link or targeted keyword would that not serve the purpose? But again I ask what about framed pages? This one site has the link page in a frame. his main frame is all keyed to HIS business and area. If I trade with him. It wouldn't really be a reciprocal link would it? As my link to him would have to be to his main frame page wouldn't it? Gee now I'm really confused ..... Others on this chat had said that ANY outgoing link on your main page is bad, IF it doesn't directly link back to you.
    Input please
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    You would get the resiprocal link just find which page it is and add the full URL if some click on that link the will not be able to navigate through his site, just that back frame.

    It the real reason frame pages SUCK.

    Everypage is a doorway page, when searching for a keyphrase, have you evr got that one that it didn't got to the frames part just the back frame?

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    Re: link pages and site maps


    Originally posted by "spherica"



    I truely believe a links page is a very bad idea.

    Having your outbound links on your content pages is a MUCH better way to go.
    I would tend to disagree because of the problem you may encounter with traffic bleed. Study the average surfer and you will see that they are "click happy" and will basically click on anything that is blue & underlined. That is why text links work so well for affiliate traffic. By placing outbound links on your content pages you are increasing the chance that someone will leave your site and go to another, thus removing the potential buyer off of your product and onto another topic.

    I also do not see how this would benefit you much in page rank, since page rank is decreased each level deeper within your site. If you place your links page in the root directory you are likely only 1 PR less than the index page and therefore are in no better or worse shape with distributing or receiving Pagerank from the people you are exchanging links with.

    Now your method may work well for sites that are non-commercial, but for those of us that earn a living from our sites, I would not recommend placing outbound links on the content portions of your site. Contain them to a links page. When surfers navigate to a LINKS page they know they are going to be directed to other websites. At the point your visitor goes to your links page, they have pretty much indicated that they are not interested in purchasing your product or service at that time, so the loss of the traffic is at that point not an issue.
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    Originally posted by "sward"

    Others on this chat had said that ANY outgoing link on your main page is bad, IF it doesn't directly link back to you.
    I agree you don't want too many links going out of your main page, your content pages. Usually you main page explain your company or such.
    Your real content is on the next level pages.

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    Re: link pages and site maps


    Originally posted by "tonyfelice"

    I also do not see how this would benefit you much in page rank, since page rank is decreased each level deeper within your site. If you place your links page in the root directory you are likely only 1 PR less than the index page and therefore are in no better or worse shape with distributing or receiving Pagerank from the people you are exchanging links with.
    Thats easy to take care of, new browser window, no toolbar if you are that "paranoid" that a potential custumer may find a rival with better content or product, then you just limited to what they were looking for, lets face it, you cannot control what a surfer does. Even with the new browser they can always just back out and go down the list of the search.

    I also think PR rating is getting too far carried away with, it is only a small equation in the algarithm. PR is just like the saying, "Crap rolls down hill" and it also rolls up. If your lower level pages are getting links then their PR is increasing, and in turn that PR is driving up the PR for your main page.

    I guess this is why everyone is aloud to have their own opinion here.
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    spherica, we'll have to agree to disagree on the placement of links. Though I do agree that all offsite links with the exception of affiliate should open in a new window.

    The other thing to consider, especially for those of us that own several sites, is the management of reciprocal links. I would think it to be much more time consuming and an organizational nightmare to have to keep track of who you are linking to and on what page their link is appearing. Personally, I check all of my links for validity, Pagerank and to see if they are honoring our link exchnage at least twice monthly. Then I remove the unproductive links. If the links were spread out over 100's of pages, this would be a very difficult task.

    I will agree with you that we do focus way too much on PR. My bet is that within a year PR will be a thing of the past. Personally I focus on optimizing for niche search terms and broadening my reach by creating more pages and more sites rather than tweaking what I already have for the hopes of gaining 1 point in my PR.
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    Well tony...I was really waiting for a reply on this.

    I own maximine, I don't have the nightmare that you talk about for looking for bad links, within multiple domains. It takes me literally minutes to check all the sites I look after, and optimize. Which is done automatically once a week.

    I too personaly make sure that all reciprocal links are honored. BUT it is not a reciprocal link unless they both point to the same page, can you honestly say that you link to other links pages.

    As for creating more sites, why would you want to create more sites???

    Are talking about creating more sites on the same topic that your other sites are about?? What is the purpose of this??
    Crosslinking???

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    Spherica

    I create affiliate marketing sites, so my work is probably different from what you are doing. Essentially an AM site is centered around a specific niche product and designed to generate SE traffic for very specific keyword searches.

    With regards to link trades the sites that I do set up trades on I have them point the link to my index page and I do the same for them.

    I create more sites and more pages simply to expand my reach and have more products available for potential SE traffic. I generally stick to related themes and yes I do link one site I own to another one I own (though that is not crosslinking as google defines it) I am simply setting up a "reciprocal link" trade as you would with any other site. It just happens that I own both sites within the trade. There is nothing wrong with that and I have never seen any evidence of Google penalizing sites that do so.

    For example I have a Bluegrass site where I feature artist bios and information (the content), I market those artists CD's & videos through amazon and acoustic instruments (the product) I also have a links page on that site which lists other bluegrass sites (the reciprocals)

    Now the next site I may build in that genre might be a sheet music site or a site promoting guitar cases. Whatever it is it will be slightly related to the first site.

    For AM's like myself it is wise to build, build, build and keep putting new and fresh sites up on the web to increase your reach. If a site is not producing revenue, you kill it, redirect the traffic and move onto something else. From my experience it is more profitable and cost effective to build a new site with a new product than to try and increase the sales of an existing site. For example if you have a site up promoting fishing lures and that site is generating $500/month in revenue. To try and tweak that site to generate another $500/month is a harrowing task, it is much easier to build a new site that sells fishing poles and makle $500/month off of that site.

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