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    Keyword Performance Tracking vs. Conversion Goal Tracking


    Some SEO services, in my opinion, tend to put too much emphasis on keyword analysis and keyword performance tracking.

    I say that increased website traffic means almost nothing, except for a marginal value for brand awareness, possibly. ROI is based on sales, not traffic.

    What matters is not raw traffic, but qualified customer traffic that converts to sales, filling out a contact form, watching a video, signing up for a newsletter, downloading a menu PDF, or whatever the desired objectives may be for a client.

    I say the emphasis should shift to conversion goals and conversion rates.

    We probably need to educate clients that keyword performance is in flux and beyond the total control of anyone, agency or SEO service or client.

    Keyword performance is subject to the whims of customers, changes in language used by customers, news events, government actions, movies, popular culture in general, competitive maneuvers, search engine algorithms, spammer activity, etc.

    Instead of emphasizing our chasing after keyword performances, we should transition into setting up conversion goals for clients and track the conversion rates according to keywords.

    Am I correct?
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  3. rod@missionop.com
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    So you're saying to a potential customer ... "you're wrong, hire me"?????

    You could prove them wrong first free of charge but that's takes a lot of cash and enormous risk... but high risk also has high rewards when they pay off.
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    No. I'm saying to the client, "We need to change strategy. You want SEO with proven ROI, not just a statement that unqualified traffic has increased and certain keyword rankings are better."

    The clients want proven results that impact his bottom line. He wants to see increase in sales and conversion goals, not "keywords are doing better".
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  7. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by vaspers
    No. I'm saying to the client, "We need to change strategy. You want SEO with proven ROI, not just a statement that unqualified traffic has increased and certain keyword rankings are better."

    The clients want proven results that impact his bottom line. He wants to see increase in sales and conversion goals, not "keywords are doing better".
    I understand what you are saying... you have a sales pitch!

    Great but don't pretend you know precisely how to generate sales for all businesses without knowing anything of the business, industry, or markets in advance.

    Before you start you don't have a clue what will make sales.

    If you did you would be able to provide tangible targets like... in this next 30 days we will make you $1,222,456.45 or 1316% increase in sales. Can you do that?

    NO... you are still only guessing.

    The moment you start thinking you are superior and can provide more than "just traffic" is the moment you are a scam.
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    I don't know how you have such psychic insight into what I know, think, and do. You seem to be accusing me, but it makes me think you are the one who is fooling clients into thinking increased traffic is of value, when it really is not. Qualified customer traffic that converts, that's what matters.

    I actually do not have a "sales pitch" at all. I don't seek SEO clients. I work as an SEO specialist for an ad agency. The agency does sales pitches to get clients, not me. I am interested in improving the agency's SEO campaigns and providing measurable ROI to clients based on conversion goals.

    If you don't understand what conversion goals and qualified customer traffic is, that's your problem.

    Your hostility toward me is quite odd.

    You have no idea of my background, expertise, sales experience, or anything. All you do is make assumptions and get angry or upset.

    You should not be calling people scams when you don't know what the hell you're talking about or who I am.
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  11. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by vaspers
    I don't know how you have such psychic insight into what I know, think, and do.
    You did that in your first post - follow the loophole logic...

    ROI is based on sales, not traffic... But qualified customer traffic that converts to sales... the emphasis should shift to conversion goals and conversion rates... We should transition into setting up conversion goals for clients and track the conversion rates... and then the big close

    ... according to keywords.


    So you come full circle and you are right back at deciding on what keyword you want to target and the reason is... Some SEO services, in my opinion, tend to put too much emphasis on keyword analysis and keyword performance tracking.

    ...isn't that what you want to do?

    Pick keyword, track keyword, analyze keywords so you can determine which keywords perform?

    Sounds like you're simply trying to confuse the public so you can get a gig.

    You have no idea of my background, expertise, sales experience, or anything. All you do is make assumptions and get angry or upset.
    I made sense of your post in less than a minute... don't do research on keywords so you can do research on keywords.
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    So you don't believe in conversion goals? You think unqualified website traffic is of value? You think keyword performance tracking is more important than quality content, web usability, and credibility of company? You just give clients keyword reports and call that SEO, with no ROI at all?

    I told you I am not trying to "get a gig". Unlike you, I am employed and paid quite well.

    Sorry about your lack of work. Maybe things will get better for you in a few more years, as you start to understand ROI and client relations.
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  15. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by vaspers
    So you don't believe in conversion goals? You think unqualified website traffic is of value? You think keyword performance tracking is more important than quality content, web usability, and credibility of company? You just give clients keyword reports and call that SEO, with no ROI at all?

    I told you I am not trying to "get a gig". Unlike you, I am employed and paid quite well.

    Sorry about your lack of work. Maybe things will get better for you in a few more years, as you start to understand ROI and client relations.
    I didn't say anything about not desiring conversions... I'm simply stating a fact of business... if you have zero insights into a specific industry, zero insights into a specific market, zero insights into a specific website, zero insights into a specific website design, zero insights into a specific platform, zero insights into whether the domain is secure, has reliable hosting, reliable merchant services, and whether the customer has solid customer service support, a solid brand, a solid reputation (as if any customer will say MY REPUTATION SUCKS! ...and about 100 other possible things that will trip you up in producing that ROI you can't begin to claim you can do what you think you can do... no matter who the potential client is.

    Even if you capture an order (a conversion... 1000 of them) what if your customer does "bait & switch tactics?" You wouldn't even know this was a problem but it certainly is a problem to ROI - refunds & chargebacks are reversals on ROI but you never included that into your disclaimer for commitment but you are accountable for them because "it's all about sales" right?

    You started off stating keyword research sucks as a gauge for ROI potential and then you ended on saying I'm just going to do better keyword research for better ROI ... as if that was a better plan... but you can't begin to determine the best keyword for ROI without analyzing their performance in the first place.

    And what about fraudulent charges... do you say "that's a sale" even if your customer lost the product and the revenue... or will you pay for your fair share since you are accountable for ROI?

    You're a flimflam man... If you aren't providing commission-based services e.g. only getting paid on the factual ROI then you're just doing word play and don't mean what you say... or are you a stand-up guy and will risk losing your own hard earned money because sales are like that... if sales drop will you pay your customer for reverse ROI? Or is that simply his ****ing problem!

    The greatest issue you face isn't keyword research its your own incompetence (we all face that not just you) believing all customers are equal and you can help everyone and only in a positive manner including:

    1. the guy with a 1 page website and 1000 products on that page
    2. the guy selling ringtones for $0.99 cents (net profit $0.05)
    3. the Adsense wantabie business
    4. the website with 100's of articles are from article submission sites
    5. the guy that doesn't realize he has had a penalty for 5 years (thus doesn't disclose that to you in advance)
    6. the guy with a 100% fair use website that will never rank because it is fair use and on 1000 other domains (but unless you're also an authority on all content every written that fact doesn't jump out at you)
    7. (I had this one in the past) the guy that got you to build ROI on his domain so he could copy it all to a domain for each major city in the USA and paying only for the first... that's real ROI eh? He got banned BTW... how do you control what you are not privy to?

    This is a gift - The guy that thinks he knows more than you he'll just listen to you spout off about all you'll do and he won't hire you he'll just do it himself.

    You can't possibly claim you can build real ROI for anyone without insider knowledge and I darn say you don't have a lock on insider knowledge for all industries and all markets... thus your planned approach is cookie-cutter style... all potential customers are identical so your solution does not need to be customized for each customer... you'll just build ROI by picking the best keywords.

    God if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.

    I wish you luck.
    Last edited by fathom; Feb 9th, 2013 at 07:10 AM.
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    Hello ,
    We need you advice/views on the following question :
    Is there any tools/resources to find out ROI of any given keywords ?
    Lets say , I have 5 KWS ,
    Now I like to determine which one is best in terns of return.
    Look forward to your view .
    Thanks

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