Pagerank IS dead...

And for a number of reasons.

During the last year we have all seen the quality of Google results drop. For some search terms more than others. Exactly why this has happened has been a hot topic and numerous speculations have surfaced.

Let us try to sum these up. Why is PageRank no longer working?

#1: By implementing PR, Google tried to understand and measure the elements of the web. In doing so, they became a factor in the equation and changed the web. This theory was outlined by Jeremy's Blog, and is an analogy to HUP, or the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. In short, this principle states that in order to measure something in quantemechanics, one has to bump into the particle being measured - in order to know the particle's initial position. In doing so, the particle will be moved, and therefore an absolute exact measure cannot be obtained. Thus, in implementing PR, Google changed the web and so do we all when trying to understand PageRank. For more information, see the original article.

#2: As people and businesses came to understand PageRank, they changed, not only the system, but the web itself. Obviously, this is related to the arguments mentioned in #1. Abusive linking has surfaced, and blogging has become a tool in devicing PageRank.

#3: Devicing PageRank has become a business. When this happends, several other factors become part of the PageRank system. Building PR is big business. And economic laws have become part of the equation. However, at such an early stage in the process, price is too high for most businesses and corporate dollars will therefore dominate search results. This turns Google into nothing but a PPC search engine, where the most eager buyer will list as #1. Of course content is of importance, but not nearly as important as i was.

When Google implemented PR, they did a good thing - or at least their intention was good. Their intention was to device a way to range content, without depending on old-style content algorithmes. A SE cannot judge content as humans do, rather it calculates it's value through complex algorithmes. With PR, Google thought they had built a system able to range content through an algorithme based on human judgement. But as time has gone by, we can now see the full effect of the system, and the system has destroyed itself by its very existence. Or we destroyed the system, and by 'we' I mean the people that took on the task to understand PR. In my opinion it was rather naive of Google, thinking that people would not be able to crack the code - and abuse this.

While focusing on PR, Google seems to have forgotten about their content-algo. Doorway-pages and splash screens dominates search results, along with the above mentioned corporate websites. Do we want this? NO!

Google is destroying itself. And they are obviously lacking a strategy, when loosing focus on what they really should focus on: CONTENT!!

Øyvind Frøland
merito consulting

I don't believe the three factors you mention are contributing to the death of PageRank - in fact, I think it is helping it develop faster. For every move the SEO makes, Google makes a counter-move, fully tweaking a realizing the potential of their algo.

I hear every day that Google is dying/going crazy/not producing good results. I say that it is BULL. The 1000 people at Google aren't trying to promote doorway pages in the SERPS, they are trying to tweak their formulae so that ALL that shows up is GOOD, RELEVANT CONTENT.

Now, obviously Google has a LOT of work to do to get it perfect - but to call Google, Google's algorithms and Google's technology "dead" is an exercise in futility, as is trying to convince the serious SEO.

****IF SERIOUS SEO WERE easy and Google was "perfect", EVERYONE AND THEIR DOG would have TOP SERPS. I, for one, hope that Google remains confusing as all HELL, because it is good job security.****

Hehe I agree Manga. I'd rather have everyone confused by big G.

I also disagree that serps have been getting worse. I find them being much better recently.

Finally, until G stops seeing 75% of searches or however much they get, they are definitely not "dead."

PageRank isn't dead and Google is even less dead.

Sounds a bit like a rant from a SEO dude that tweaked their pages to be what Google liked, then is pissed that Google no longer likes it.

At the end of the day Google is trying to return the most relevant results, which they do (compared to other search engines). Results will never be perfect... if they were, there would be no such thing as SEO.

- Shawn

Given that my site suddenly dropped 3 months ago from PR3 to PR0 for no apparent reason, and seeing competitor websites with less content get better SERP placement and higher PR, i certainly hope it's dead.... but i doubt it is.

In my limited experience i have been finding AllTheWeb to be giving the better results, but board users here may be the only ones that know about that search engine!

To think about the company Google from the inside, i'm certain their concern right now is on producing and anylizing numbers for their anticipated IPO next year rather than how appropriate my random search results are. Rumors have been reported that Microsoft is knocking on their door looking for a partnership of some sort... this sort of action (IPO focus and microsoft courting) could easily lead a company to take their eye off the ball and result in what most of us perceive to be poorer search results.

I'm fairly new to all of this SEO, but the above are my humble perceptions after watching for a few months.

How can one defend the very fact that PR can be bought? PR is no mystery to a skilled SEO. And no: my Google rankings are good.

I am just worried about how things have been developing the last 6 months. I've seen competitors build large sites with hundreds of crosslinked virtual domains, and their aim is solely to sell PR to their clients, charging thousands of dollars.

hmm.........
nah I wont bother

yuckfoo...
old news.
but i agree...as i already stated here:

http://forums.seochat.com/showthrea...er&pagenumber=2

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so i say...do not let this link mania become an obsession.
make good web sites.

if for no other reason...for the reason that the power of pagerank will be a shortlived entity as we know it today...especially in the instances of contrived links...as in purchased links or link exchanges...why?...because these are devices intended to manipulate the system...google knows this...and you better believe google is at work on the next evolution of pagerank or its successor. but what will always sit favorably with google and supported by google are good quality web sites with good quality content. google exists to deliver this content.....and sell a few ads along the way...... without good quality content there would
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googe will evolve.

this phenomenon of manipulation is not unique to the internet or google.
it exists in all systems where achievement yields financial reward.

once upon a time baseball was a game. the best team won. now its a business for the richest most powerful team to win.

the race for political office can be manipulated with money.

competitive sports can be tweaked with steroids.

even in the fashion industry...'beauty' can be 'bought' today with liposuction, botox, breast augmentation, plastic surgery, facelifts, hair extensions, collegen...whatever.

as long as 'search'...finding something...has a value...there will always be people manipulating the intended results.
i doubt if this forum would exist if not for the 'value' of ranking higher in the serps.

the answer is for google to continue to develop more sophisticated and unhackable ways to evaluate search 'relevance'. google needs to move toward more 'subjective' ways to analyze content. as long as the system is based on an 'objective' mathematical solution...it will always be vulnerable...no matter how complex. it was discussed suggested at this forum a little while back that google may be recording clicks on search results and adding this to the mix. i dont believe this is a useful indicator since higher rankings will always get more clicks due to serp location only.

however...i have been pondering lately about the google toolbar and its role in the google 'future'. i have always believed that a lot more info gets sent to google than we might think. i think that a device like this could be added to the ranking mix to track users web browsing and assign weight based on it. i gotta believe too that any improved system of search 'relevance' will evolve with more and more diversity and scope.

like a good stock portfolio...i believe google will add more factors to the 'algo' equation....diversify...thus making it harder to get big serp leaps with just one method of hacking...like linking...i think they will always keep 'backlinks' in the system...but will decrease its overall impact on the be people e manipulating the intended results.
i doubt if this forum would exist if not for the 'value' of ranking higher in the serps.

the answer is for google to continue to develop more sophisticated and unhackable ways to evaluate search 'relevance'. google needs to move toward more 'subjective' ways to analyze content. as long as the system is based on an 'objective' mathematical solution...it will always be vulnerable...no matter how complex. it was discussed suggested at this forum a little while back that google may be recording clicks on search results and adding this to the mix. i dont believe this is a useful indicator since higher rankings will always get more clicks due to serp location only.

however...i have been pondering lately about the google toolbar and its role in the google 'future'. i have always believed that a lot more info gets sent to google than we might think. i think that a device like this could be added to the ranking mix to track users web browsing and assign weight based on it. i gotta believe too that any improved system of search 'relevance' will evolve with more and more diversity and scope.

like a good stock portfolio...i believe google will add more factors to the 'algo' equation....diversify...thus making it harder to get big serp leaps with just one method of hacking...like linking...i think they will always keep 'backlinks' in the system...but will decrease its overall impact on the be people manipulating the intended results.

i think we will start to see more and more unexplainable serps as a result of this increasing reliance on a more diverse system of pagerank by google. you have to imagine too that even the publishing of this pagerank value will at some point be discontinued....as its only purpose has become an indicator of how well one has manipulated the google system. i have often wondered why google chose to make pr score public to begin with...i gotta believe that part of the reason was pure 'marketing' for google.

i have tried to fix the above post several times...but there is some bug in the system or my text that keeps mutating my writing. so i give up. sorry.

f*ck.

Ah - good to hear that someone has given these things thought. Also good to hear someone speculate on the Googlebar possibilities. And I think you are quite right - PR as we know it today, is dead, or will be dead in the near future.

As for the publishing of the PR, this is not necessarily a dumb thing. Google means that PR ranks quality, right? So the purpose is to display that very 'rank' to Google users - just as done in the Google Directory (laggy though). This does however cause problems, as you so well pointed out.

Now, I have got to ask: What do you think about the voting feature that has been implemented? Plain dumb or do you think it will has some function in the future?

not thrilled about the voting thing. once again...as many other critics have said...seems open to manipulation. for example...i am sure the first thing we all would do...no matter how ethical you consider yourself...is go out and cast a 'no' vote for each and every competitor site you know of...i would and you know you would too.

this is similar to a search site concept here: http://www.stumbleupon.com/

i still believe that tracking a users browsing is a better option in regards to that users 'voting' whether a site is 'useful' or not. if a user frequents a web site...then we can accurately assume that the user finds it useful. if they dont visit a site...then they dont find it useful. now...we have to ask...could a devious hacker somhow harness armies of alias-users in an effort to manipulate this system. perhaps. i also think that there would be some individuals concerns about the 'privacy' issues related to such a method.

...whioc, relaxzoolander, is what the toolbar does, no??

That may be a "hidden" use for the toolbar, or it may just be conjecture. Either way, PageRank is here and probably will stay, at least in the short term.

To say it is dead because of reasons that aren't Google's decision is nutz. PageRank will only be dead when Google stop using it. Fullstop, end of argument.

i never said pagerank is dead.