#1
  1. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    198
    Rep Power
    37

    Page Rank Calculation


    Hello,

    I had gone through some articles on how does Google calculate PR. In a simple term, this is how Google calculate PR of a site (Don't know whether I am correct or not).

    Lets say there are three sites X , Y and Z. And Y has PR 2 and X is linking to its PR page and there is another site Z which is linking to the same page. So the PR passed on to X and Z would be calculated as...

    X = Y PR/number of links to Y page.

    So in this case the PR that would pass on to X and Z would be 1 each looking at the PR of site Y which is 2. Obviously it wouldn't be passing PR 1 to both the sites since there are some other factor which I am currently not taking into account at the moment.

    Now Can any one help me on whether the internal links are also counted when calculating the PR or its just the Outbound link
    .

    Secondly I have heard that one should link to high PR sites to get high page rank for themselves. Why is it so when one can get the PR juice even out of sites which has low PR like 1 or 2 and the number of OBL to such sites being very low.

    So can somebody suggest me whether its about linking to high PR sites ( where obviously 99% of links will be nofollow and useless since no link juice would pass on) or link to any sites(obviously in same niche) which has low PR but passing on link juice.
  2. #2
  3. SEO Insultant
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sharing a room with my ego
    Posts
    5,802
    Rep Power
    1841
    First of all: the classic PR formula divides PR equally across internal and outbound links.

    Secondly: who told you that linking OUT to a high PR page has a direct effect on YOUR PR? That only works if they link back to you, and even then it needs to be done from a high PR webpage that is still capable of passing PR in the first place.

    In short:
    - linking out has no direct effect on your own PR, apart from the fact that less PR would then flow to your own pages (however, this would be easy to compensate )
    - you need INBOUND links to get higher Pagerank

    Lastly: I wouldn't worry about PR too much anymore

    Comments on this post

    • Kevin H agrees
    • grgmathew agrees : Although SEOer dont worry about PR, but customer worldwide still finds faith on it.
    • TcxAnthony agrees
    Last edited by dzine; Nov 21st, 2012 at 06:44 AM.
    ...Hey you! FREE SEO report card ...I really my hosting company...
  4. #3
  5. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    198
    Rep Power
    37
    Originally Posted by dzine

    Secondly: who told you that linking OUT to a high PR page has a direct effect on YOUR PR?
    I am sorry for not defining correctly whether I am talking about linking in or out.

    Originally Posted by grgmathew
    Secondly I have heard that one should link to high PR sites to get high page rank for themselves.
    I meant to say about linking in to my site. I believe this would completely change your reply now.
  6. #4
  7. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Huddersfield, UK
    Posts
    164
    Rep Power
    160
    Having agreed with DZine in his comments - assuming you are interested from a pure 'interest' point of view then:

    the PR situation is more complex that your assumption above and I won't even try to do the full math but it works closer to this:

    the 'value' of PR is not linear - and whilst I don't know the exact numbers, for this example, we will use exponential of 10.

    So, PR0 = 1, PR 1 = 10, PR 2 = 100, PR 3 = 1000 etc

    the amount of 'value' available to passed out of a page is its base value * 0.85 (so 85 for PR 2, 850 for PR 3 etc)

    You then divide this number by the total number of links (internal or external, followed or nofollowed)

    so, if there is a PR 2 page with 1 link on it then all 85 'value' would be passed through the link.
    If that same page has 85 links on it then each link would get 1 'value' passed through it.

    Very quickly you can see that the more links on a page the faster the 'value' passed through any link decreases.

    (You can also see why it is easier to go from PR0 to 1, and 1 to 2 than it is to go from 2 to 3 etc.)

    We can then reasonably expect that nowadays once you have the 'link value' for a given link this is then going to be modified even further by page relevancy etc (no idea on how this works though).

    So, when you consider that most pages have lots of internal links (menus etc) and 'scam' sites and directories have 10s, 100s, even 1000s of links on, then the value you will ever get from the link is minimal at best; even from sites with supposed 'good PR'.

    This is why those in the know keep saying not to worry too much about the PR of a page you want a link from, but to concentrate on the quality of the page and how likely you are to get traffic FROM THE LINK. This is much more important.
  8. #5
  9. SEO Insultant
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sharing a room with my ego
    Posts
    5,802
    Rep Power
    1841
    Originally Posted by grgmathew
    I am sorry for not defining correctly whether I am talking about linking in or out.



    I meant to say about linking in to my site. I believe this would completely change your reply now.
    Yes. That is true

    And you are correct: lots of high PR pages:
    1) use rel="nofollow"
    2) or are not allowed to pass PR at all (because of a penalty)

    In that case: a link from them has no DIRECT SEO benefit. However, it might "rub off" on others, if their site/page is popular enough.

    Whether a high PR (dofollowed) link that is not related is better than a low PR one that is related....: well the judges are still out on that. Both have benefits. Best would be to get the combo, I guess.
  10. #6
  11. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    198
    Rep Power
    37
    Originally Posted by Kevin H
    Having agreed with DZine in his comments - assuming you are interested from a pure 'interest' point of view then:

    the PR situation is more complex that your assumption above and I won't even try to do the full math but it works closer to this:

    the 'value' of PR is not linear - and whilst I don't know the exact numbers, for this example, we will use exponential of 10.

    So, PR0 = 1, PR 1 = 10, PR 2 = 100, PR 3 = 1000 etc

    the amount of 'value' available to passed out of a page is its base value * 0.85 (so 85 for PR 2, 850 for PR 3 etc)

    You then divide this number by the total number of links (internal or external, followed or nofollowed)

    so, if there is a PR 2 page with 1 link on it then all 85 'value' would be passed through the link.
    If that same page has 85 links on it then each link would get 1 'value' passed through it.

    Very quickly you can see that the more links on a page the faster the 'value' passed through any link decreases.

    (You can also see why it is easier to go from PR0 to 1, and 1 to 2 than it is to go from 2 to 3 etc.)

    We can then reasonably expect that nowadays once you have the 'link value' for a given link this is then going to be modified even further by page relevancy etc (no idea on how this works though).

    So, when you consider that most pages have lots of internal links (menus etc) and 'scam' sites and directories have 10s, 100s, even 1000s of links on, then the value you will ever get from the link is minimal at best; even from sites with supposed 'good PR'.

    This is why those in the know keep saying not to worry too much about the PR of a page you want a link from, but to concentrate on the quality of the page and how likely you are to get traffic FROM THE LINK. This is much more important.
    So going by your maths above, it should be assumed that link juice passing from a page with dofollow tag to my site would be prized with some value of PR whether the PR be 1 or 5 for the page I am linking ( Obviously the value would be high or less according to the page PR).
  12. #7
  13. SEO Insultant
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sharing a room with my ego
    Posts
    5,802
    Rep Power
    1841
    Even if the PR of the page linking to you were 0 (=zero!), it would still have a positive flow of Pagerank to your page. Because zero actually means: slightly more than 0.
  14. #8
  15. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    198
    Rep Power
    37
    Originally Posted by dzine
    Even if the PR of the page linking to you were 0 (=zero!), it would still have a positive flow of Pagerank to your page. Because zero actually means: slightly more than 0.
    Although I never heard about pagerank 0 passing on some positive flow of pagerank but I would really take a note of this, since I believe on every post you write and carefully follow them. Its a nice peace of knowledge. So in that case linking to PR 0 is also not a bad idea.
  16. #9
  17. SEO Insultant
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sharing a room with my ego
    Posts
    5,802
    Rep Power
    1841
    Keep in mind that the PR value that shows on the toolbar is a rounded value. There is no PR value below 0. Therefore, all pages that had PR < 0.5 during the last public update will:
    - show 0 PR on the toolbar
    - pass positive PR, albeit not much

    Also keep in mind that updates are few and far between. A page that is still showing PR0 could easily now have a PR of 3. Never dismiss inbound links from PR0 pages.

    Pages that had no PR during the last update will show as 'greybars': PR N/A. Still.... even these pages might have PR to share nowadays.

    All that said: I don't have the toolbar installed anymore. It doesn't help me in my SEO efforts. PR is such a small thing....
    Last edited by dzine; Nov 21st, 2012 at 07:46 AM.
  18. #10
  19. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    198
    Rep Power
    37
    Originally Posted by dzine
    All that said: I don't have the toolbar installed anymore. It doesn't help me in my SEO efforts. PR is such a small thing....
    I will appreciate if you may write an article on the above quoted topic as a sticky note in this forum . Nevertheless your responses has made my day. I have gathered a good bunch of knowledge today. However one last thing, how can an unranked page pass link juice or rather PR. Let me guess. I do assume the PR is updated behind the scene on very frequent basis by Google and the same is updated every three month( as per tendency seen during this year). So do you mean that an unranked page might achieve some ranking value between updates which does not show up in toolbar until next update.
    Last edited by grgmathew; Nov 21st, 2012 at 08:16 AM.
  20. #11
  21. SEO Insultant
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sharing a room with my ego
    Posts
    5,802
    Rep Power
    1841
    You are absolutely correct.
  22. #12
  23. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    198
    Rep Power
    37
    Originally Posted by dzine
    You are absolutely correct.
    Ahhhhhh ..... It was all your words. Thanks again.
  24. #13
  25. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    mexico
    Posts
    58
    Rep Power
    10
    if you want to get into the real nitty gritty of the page rank and other search engine things, i advise visiting Bill over at
    www.seobythesea.com/ he reads many patents and writes extensively on technical aspects of search engines, optimization, social media, and where search is at these days etc etc......

    the way Pagerank is calculated these days is much more complex than anyone here imagines and from what bit of info i have read, not all links on a page pass the same amount of 'link juice' - for example google rates navigation and footer links as lower than say contextual links and hence would pass more page rank through a contextual link in general, but that also depends on lots of factors like the anchor text, the page it's linking too and the content of that page, the surrounding text of the link anchor, even its size and postion on the page is also important....so many factors so little time!

    Comments on this post

    • dzine agrees : Good advice. The formula is bound to have changed a bit since the beginning :)
    Last edited by michaelj72; Nov 25th, 2012 at 07:20 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Page Rank and Page Index Count?
    By dbsinc in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Apr 5th, 2006, 10:58 PM

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo