Why do clients expect their sites to appear on the first page of Google? Back me up!

Can my fellow SEO experts please confirm to me that I'm not talking bol**cks!

I explain the following SEO strategies to my clients till I'm blue in the face and it dosen't seem to sink in, let me know if I have this wrong.

In order of importanance:

1. Incoming links to site.
2. Relevant page titles incorporating keywords.
3. Good bodycopy with approx. 15% made up of relevant keywords.
4. H1, H2, H3 tags with relevant headings
5. Updated content, particularly homepage.
6. Site description
7. Meta tag keywords.

N.B. All of my sites are created with XHTML & CSS with html links.

Several of my clients' site have incorporated the points have mentioned and those sites do well with the Search Engines.

The clients who have not adhered to those points find it difficult to accept that their sites don't appear very highly with the SERP's.

Have I missed any important factors with SEO? Is it my fault that the sites don't do very well in Google?

Please confirm to me that I have some idea of what I'm talking about or that I haven't got a clue and I really am a bad web designer.

Many Thanks

Here's an expanded version of your list, with a few added elements.

Use your keyword/keyword phrase

· In META keywords. It’s not necessary for Google, but a good habit. Keep your META keywords short (128 characters max, or 10).
· In META description. Keep keyword close to the left but in a full sentence.
· In the title at the far left but possibly not as the first word.
· In the top portion of the page in first sentence of first full bodied paragraph (plain text: no bold, no italic, no style).
· In an H2-H4 heading
· In bold – second paragraph if possible and anywhere but the first usage on page.
· In italic – anywhere but the first usage.
· In subscript/superscript.
· In URL (directory name, filename, or domain name). Do not duplicate the keyword in the URL.
· In an image filename used on the page.
· In ALT tag of that previous image mentioned.
· In the title attribute of that image.
· In link text to another site.
· In an internal link’s text.
· In title attribute of all links targeted in and out of page.
· In the filename of your external CSS (Cascading Style Sheet) or JavaScript file.
· In an inbound link on site (preferably from your home page).
· In an inbound link from offsite (if possible).
· In a link to a site that has a PageRank of 8 or better.

Other search engine optimization things to consider include:

· Use “last modified” headers if you can.
· Validate that HTML. Some feel Google’s parser has become stricter at parsing instead of milder. It will miss an entire page because of a few simple errors – we have tested this in depth.
· Use an HTML template throughout your site. Google can spot the template and parse it off. (Of course, this also means they are pretty good at spotting duplicate content).
· Keep the page as .html or .htm extension. Any dynamic extension is a risk.
· Keep the HTML below 20K. 5-15K is the ideal range.
· Keep the ration of text to HTML very high. Text should out weigh HTML by significant amounts.
· Double check your page in Netscape, Opera, and IE. Use Lynx if you have it.
· Use only raw HREFs for links. Keep JavaScript far, far away from links. The simpler the link code the better.
· The traffic comes when you figure out that 1 referral a day to 10 pages is better than 10 referrals a day to 1 page.
· Don’t assume that keywords in your site’s navigation template will be worth anything at all. Google looks for full sentences and paragraphs. Keywords just laying around orphaned on the page are not worth as much as when used in a sentence.

I've been doing a lot of microsites and proving the impact. This will get their attention much quicker.

GaryTheScubaGuy

Thanks GaryTheScubaGuy,

Quick response much appreciated.

I am pretty much up to speed will the things you mentioned although I didn't know one or two. I try and refrain from getting too technical with the client and end up doing most of the things you mentioned 'behind the scenes' without them really needing to know.

My list was broken down into basic terms purly for the clients purposes and there ease of understanding. It is also a guide as to help them provide me with good copy, page titles, headings etc., and to aid them in understanding the importance of incoming links and regularly updating there site.

So I'm not talking bol**cks then.

Thanks a lot

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong... the customer is always right even when they are wrong. Remember the Golden Rule of business... Them that hold the gold make the rules.

You are dealing with some customer expectations being ahead of reality. That is part and parcel to most markets; including SEO.

Of course stipulating your goals in a smart SEO proposal will eliminate any errnoeous claims of 'you promised this, etc.'.

Also, I'd go through the trouble of training some of the people with SEO foundational skills to eliminate some problems.

I think the reason customers may want more is what is said above with the proper proposal and the simple fact is most people do not understand seo in the first place. They think you make a change here or there and next day you are number one and off course we all know that is not true. Why because we deal in this business and realize there is no short term fix for anything in life let alone seo. So I would as above state make sure in a proposal it is very defined as what to expect and how long it make take to get there. I think if everything is laid out clear and concise then that reduces most of the confusion to the customer.

IMO, clients wants something more from us because they don't really know how hard it is for us to optimize their site

they just give their demands and we have no choice but to follow them, as the saying goes, "customer is always right"

Good thread and great FB.

Thankfully I am blessed with enough business to be picky with new business and avoid the clients that have surreal expectations. The clients I like and can see potential with, but "just don't know", I spend the time to educate.

Just as PPC, email marketing, affiliate management have become part of a Search Managers arsenal, so is delegation, understanding, and the ability to actually become a teacher and take the extra steps to harness some of that misuderstanding.

In the end, most people consider things that they read or hear that they didn't know previously, as a piece of information to talk about and debate with you, when all they are really trying to do is understand. They come across as cynical but are in reality trying to convince you that they have some knowledge about what you are doing. After all, they are handing over their hard earned money to someone doing something they have no understanding of. That's why they are paying you.

I have actually picked up skills from clients....the best one is that I have become a better listener.

GaryTheScubaGuy

Yes the client is King, but a line has to be drawn when they are expecting to reach unrealistic targets like appearing on the front page of Google, with no extra effort form themselves.

When I quote a new website I include a high level of SEO (which I treat as standard practice when building sites), which includes the points I made in the first post.

I advise the client that before anything drastic happens such as sponsored links, adwords etc. that they should allow time for the new site to 'settle'. I have been informing them that it could take anything up to 3 months to see any affect of SEO with Google, but I have now been reading that it could take up to 8 to 12 months, is this true?

Anyway...what I'm getting at, is that some of my clients don't understand that for a website to do well in the SERP's, it takes more than just uploading it and submitting it to the Serach Engines.
I am already doing a lot of work 'behind the scenes' that they don't see and are not even aware that I'm doing which I include in the price.

So it annoys me when after my meticulous site construction and guidance as to how the site content should be written and presented, and basically sharing my years of knowledge and experience (technically for free). Any they spend no effort in marketing the site or trying to get other sites to link to it, that they should complain that after only 6 weeks after the launch that it isn't appearing high in Google.

I wish I were in your position Scuba, I would not touch such clients with barge pole.

I was reading this thread (which is very interesting for a non pro such as myself), but I got lost one comment:

"· In bold – second paragraph if possible and anywhere but the first usage on page."

Does this mean my header section of my actual page (not Meta) should have no keywords there? If so I have some problems as I lead of in a brief description in my header or first paragraph with a sentence or paragraph containing keywords before launching into the main content. This seems to have worked with MSN and Yahoo, but maybe that is why I have not done as well with Google, although I have attributed this to not performing correct SEO in the beginning and just allowing time as far as Google to come up in listings (we are slowly rising in Google). I also change and up date my content regularly (which seems to help with MSN).

Carl

It is really all about managing expectations. I require all of my clients to go through a 1.5 - 2 hour SEO training via the phone or skpye. The training starts with the basics of how their current web site is seen by the three major search engines, goes through on-page optimization and off-page optimization and bench marking themselves vs. their competitors.

Anyone who is not willing to go through and "pay" for the training I won't work with. I have found that once they understand the basics of SEO and what has to be done, then it is easier to manage their expectations. We design a long term strategy from that point.

The two times I wavered on my policy, both accounts became nightmares to deal with, so I politely gave them their money back and suggested they would be better suited working with an SEO firm whose communication style is a better fit for them (essentially I took the blame, I didn't make it about them). By the way...both accounts begged me to reconsider.

You can't let money be the sole motivator. I know it is hard to turn down work. Focus on the match between your communication style and theirs, outlining clearly the expectations and establishing a long term "partnership" approach.

(F.Y.I..... these comments are not meant to be a commercial, just trying to give some suggestions from experience).

Well if a client is paying for SEO, he probably expects to be on the first page of google. I'm sure hes not paying to get to page #3.

The problem is just that the clients think theyre gonna be there overnight or in a unreasonable amount of time!

Actually, I tell people exactly that. I don't do SEO for a living, but folks who know me know that I know SEO.

When they ask what it takes, I say "time & effort". If you hire someone to do it, what you spend is directly related to what your position will be.

On a minimal budget, you can make page 3. Spend some more and you can make page 2. Get serious and allocate some real funds, and you can make page 1.

/*tom*/

I have found that most good SEO's that I know end up giving up the client rout and build their own pool of sites....

I think it is possible if you do everything right, such as meta tags, inline text with keywords, h tags, bold, articles with incoming links, but the absolute best thing, is press releases and getting your site linked to by high profile sites.... for instance, this is my own experience how I just jumped from who knows where to #11 on google out of competition of over 216 Million sites!

it was for my music site (URL address blocked: See forum rules) - my goal was to get up on there for 'online music community' - it was nowhere to be found for years, until, I relaunched the site with tons of new content, admin blog on the homepage(frequently updated) and got a link from the biggest chicago rock radio station to my site. All the sudden it jumped up like crazy... wanna know the funny thing? I don't even have my title or meta tags seo'd at all!!!!! hahaha! think about it! once I do a little bit of seo magic, I will be on page 1 - for my clients, I have also done quite well on google. you just have to drink some jack and coke and start looking at cached pages of google, learn how it thinks and do what it likes.... simple as that!