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  1. SEO Earthquake!
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    Unpopular Opinion and BLs


    All these threads about the update have something in common - everyone is concerned their BLs got devalued. Even the WHs are wondering about this and I just have to point out that if you got legitimate BLs this wouldn't be a problem or concern.

    You know your participation in link exchanges and purchases is against the guidelines and yet you did it anyway! If the algo has changed because G finally found a way to catch this - GOOD!

    It means less spam for all of us to contend with. And most of you have complained in this forum at some point about how G values links. Well, they are finally fixing it. If it is to your detriment that is really too bad but great for those that avoided the "easy" way.

    Even if it turns out G changed something else in their algo that has nothing to do with BLs I want to encourage all of you to take a look at your tactics, especially in reguards to gaining links. Do you really want to freak out each time there is an update? Is it worth the stress and pressure to you? Is it worth damaging your honor for a short-term bump knowing that some day G will catch on and penalize you severely... possibly getting banned? Is all that worth your reputration and future in this industry?

    There is a better way.

    Comments on this post

    • 75c agrees : Can't add points, but EXCELLENT - they knew what they were doing! If you murder, your risk imprisonment. What's the difference?
    • digidogstudios agrees
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  3. <- Have you read my blog?
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    I agree with you, and for the most part, I call myself a WH also.

    However some of my domains that I manage which are totally one way natural links, got slammed. Obviously Google can't be perfect and to expect that everyone who earned their rank by WH methods should be ranked accordingly is illogical considering the size of the database Google has to attend to.

    However, I do have many other sites that employ only one way and three way linking that have not been touched. I do not deal in reciprocal linking so I'm pretty much in the clear there.

    It's a really weird update and I don't think we have seen the end of it. I bet by the end, alot of us are going to look back at our threads and posts and we'll look like big tools with our theories. One thing that you won't look like a tool for is what you are suggesting, natural linking, hard work, and staying away from reciprocals will always pay off. Good post.

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    In G guidelines it talks about staying away from linking schemes.

    You’re not saying exchanging links with relevant and non-relevant sites for that matter is a “scheme” that is now considered black hat? Are you?
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  7. rubik's cube - 34 secs
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    Why post this now?

    Sorry rmccarley, but I think your out of order with your post.

    Believe or not - there are some of us with good sites who just choice to exchange links with other good sites. Simple as that.

    If G wants to see this as the same as other sites just linking to everyone and anything - then they and I have a problem.

    As much as i know your advice is right i.e. getting links correctly - Posting a 'i told you so' message at a time when some of us are worried about whats just happened is a little dumb.

    Comments on this post

    • newbieuk23 agrees : Yes, the preaching and over-the-top "I told you so" arrogance is getting to me too
    • baal32 agrees : Keep in mind that many 'web-masters' only began exchanging links because it appeared that Google valued them so highly.
    Last edited by marcO; Oct 17th, 2005 at 12:28 PM.
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  9. SEO Earthquake!
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    Originally Posted by nlgordaz
    In G guidelines it talks about staying away from linking schemes.

    You’re not saying exchanging links with relevant and non-relevant sites for that matter is a “scheme” that is now considered black hat? Are you?
    Absolutely, yes I am. Linkvault, coop network, etc. are all link schemes designed to artificially increase your rank in the SERPs through manipulation of the BLs going to your site. What else would you call it?

    It's become so common practice that people many SEOs have forgotton the point of particpating in these schemes and as they have taught the next generation of SEOs it has become a "common industry practice" in large part because these schemes have become more complex and more difficult to detect and get caught for.

    But that doesn't make it right - or WH for that matter.

    Also, in reguards to WHs getting hit by this update even with "clean" BLs. Have you taken into account the sites that link to you may have been hit making their links to you less valueable?
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  11. KSL Consulting
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    Originally Posted by nlgordaz
    You’re not saying exchanging links with relevant and non-relevant sites for that matter is a “scheme” that is now considered black hat? Are you?
    Pretty soon, I'll be loathed to add any links to my sites that have to be reciprocated.

    We run a training business and we have many training company partners. We list them and they list us. It equates to reciprocal linking, but it's on-theme and relevant and necessary for our business model. So if Google doesn't like it (which clearly they don't as the site has dropped like a stone in this update) then they need to take a look at the many legitimate business reasons why web sites of similar theme link to each other.

    I have reached utter despair with Google since they went IPO. Everything they do hurts small business and is aimed at boosting the need for using their PPC programs. After all, running a small company web site advertising our services isn't going to generate that many one way links from our competitors so we're screwed which ever way you look at it.

    This latest update is the most unpleasant one I've seen in years. It has obliterated the ranking of all but one of my web sites. Let's hope the dust is yet to settle or I can forget about any Google traffic going forward.
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    Originally Posted by marcO
    fact: the biggest beef burger is 32 miles wide!
    OMG.. That's one big burger!

    Hexed

    Comments on this post

    • rmccarley agrees : ;)
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  15. visiting Margaritaville
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    Originally Posted by rmccarley
    All these threads about the update have something in common - everyone is concerned their BLs got devalued. Even the WHs are wondering about this and I just have to point out that if you got legitimate BLs this wouldn't be a problem or concern.
    Tell that to Alexa, seeing as they are showing a PR0 after this update.

    Preaching WH is fine and dandy, but dont try shoving it down our throats. Too many pure white WH's are affected as well.
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    Originally Posted by rmccarley
    Absolutely, yes I am. Linkvault, coop network, etc. are all link schemes designed to artificially increase your rank in the SERPs through manipulation of the BLs going to your site.
    Did you read what I wrote? I didn't say anything about Linkvault, coop, or any other website that organizes link exchange? I just asked if ME exchanging links with YOU because we have similar themed websites is now considered a scheme and BH?? Moreover, would exchanging links with non-relevant sites be BH?? And when I say BH, I mean doing this will HURT you're rankings. Not devalue. Isn’t the Internet nothing more than a giant web of exchanged links?
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  19. SEO Earthquake!
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    Originally Posted by marcO
    Why post this now?
    Because I'm in marketing and know that the time to make a point is when it is on everyone's mind. Maybe I'll get through to a few people and make the industry better for it.

    Sorry rmccarley, but I think your out of order with your post.
    That's fair. I disagree, but that's a valid opinion.

    Believe or not - there are some of us with good sites who just choice to exchange links with other good sites. Simple as that.
    I completely disagree. You had to take an action that you knew held long-term risk to be in this position. There are so many ways of getting legitimate BLs its sick to think you didn't have a choice. You took the easy way out and this is the cost.

    If G wants to see this as the same as other sites just linking to everyone and anything - then they and I have a problem.

    As much as i know your advice is right i.e. getting links correctly - Posting a 'i told you so' message at a time when some of us are worried about whats just happened is a little dumb.
    I see how this could be considered heartless and bastardly and you are probably right. The timing sucks. And I'm a jerk.

    But one thing we all complain about is the spammers getting listed above us by using these same tactics. We really have a strong voice in the industry here at SEOChat as it is one of the most respected forums and contains the best SEO information with some of the best and brightest people in the industry. We can continue to look for quick boosts a la BH and continue to freak out each time there is an update with the though "they're on to me!" in the back of our minds or we can concentrate on running clean programs that work long-term. The results may not be as fast, but they are definately better and hold less stress for all involved.

    Imagine how great it was for me to tell my boss there was a big upfdate this weekend and it didn't effect us?

    I'm not trying to say "I told you so" I'm trying to tell you now so that you don't have to go through this again!

    Comments on this post

    • googler agrees : contraversal threads are historically the most productive.
    • rjonesx : You obviously did not understand the above post - a link exchange is not necessarily to improve SERPs, it could be to provide a valuable resource within your community. It appears google slammed anyone within a 3 mile radius of these links.
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    My "slow seo" site (uncompetitive keywords - still reasonably optimised) doesn't seem to have been hit. Hmmmmm.

    This "update" may be a test to weed out aggressively seo'ed websites
    Last edited by Wit; Oct 17th, 2005 at 12:41 PM.
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  23. SEO Earthquake!
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    Originally Posted by nlgordaz
    Did you read what I wrote? I didn't say anything about Linkvault, coop, or any other website that organizes link exchange? I just asked if ME exchanging links with YOU because we have similar themed websites is now considered a scheme and BH?? Moreover, would exchanging links with non-relevant sites be BH?? And when I say BH, I mean doing this will HURT you're rankings. Not devalue. Isn’t the Internet nothing more than a giant web of exchanged links?
    Again, is the point of the exchange to trade traffic or boost SERPs? Would you still do the exchange if you both used a nofollow attribute in the link?
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  25. SEO Earthquake!
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    Originally Posted by WilliamC
    Preaching WH is fine and dandy, but dont try shoving it down our throats. Too many pure white WH's are affected as well.
    My question is are they effected directly or because the sites linking to them were effected? That would devalue their incoming links and produce the same effect.

    And yes, it sucks.
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  27. visiting Margaritaville
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    Wht I find funny is that quite a few purely black websites came thru this just fine, while a lot of white sites did not. I am sure it is the same reversing those comments as well.

    Saying that white methods saved the day for you is all well and good, you may believe that, but you have no idea yet what caused the huge drops and surges everyone is seeing, any more than anyone else here does yet, so coming off with these white hat speaches looks really more like childish "I told ya so's" when nobody yet knows what happened.

    Comments on this post

    • Kasparoff agrees : Totally agree. No one know for sure what has happened, but already try to make some conclusions.
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    I don't care if you're a WH or BH, SEO is all about manipulating the search results. So if you're WH what does that mean? You do nothing and see what happens? Manipulating copy, html, links etc for specific keyword phrases is what it's all about.

    Comments on this post

    • WilliamC agrees
    • dougedoug agrees : agreed
    • nutkeis agrees : Amen. No sense trying to pretend you're the purest one in the brothel.
    • christophera agrees : Good point - and welcome to the forums.
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