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    Question Tool or professional?


    Thanks for everyone's help over the last few posts..

    I currently use SEO Proflier and I have a copy of IBP installed on my machine.

    I find both tools good as they give you some concrete things to change and check against.

    Currently Im at the limit as what they can provide and I need something else to push things forward.

    I know people are going to say things like 'use Moz its amazing..', but to be honest I don't think they add much beyond what SEO Profiler does..

    Just tried a few online tools and all I get from them is 'technically your site is amazing..'

    So as Im a web designer with an interest in SEO, should I be considering looking at a professional or company to help?

    My issue is that we have never really marked up the work, so I simply don't have the thousands a month to throw at it.

    Can I have some suggestions as to my way forward?

    I.e. if I can only afford the £50 a month, then just keep with the tool as anyone decent is going to cost a lot more.

    And for a small Web designer, looking to target a couple of locations, what sort of monthly budget do I need to consider? (Not major cities, more large town size)

    Finally for someone with a tiny budget what are my options with regards to outside help? (i.e. do I just chance it with fivr.com and buy link building)

    Thank you in advance.
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    A few things here:

    Tools are just helpful guides at best, other than one or two to save time I've never needed anything else. What they can't do is plan a long term strategy for your business which is essential for success.

    Don't even consider buying links from Fiver and the like, that way lies a painful demise. The only thing I would consider outsourcing for a small budget would be content, but again you pay for quality.

    All in all, I'd say if you can't afford a decent professional don't try and skimp on it with a cheap service, that really is throwing your money away.

    The best suggestion I have is focus on coming up with a realistic long-term plan to fit in with the hours you have available.

    One other possible avenue is find an SEO company who doesn't offer web design services, that way you can refer clients back and forth.

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    • universo agrees
    • KnowOneSpecial agrees
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    Ironically my pages rank in the locations for 'seo service x' really well. lol

    The plan part is spot on (and we are trying to look at non google streams, but its hard.)

    I think the part I'm personally having issues with is why I cant progress any of the web design landing pages further then they are..

    So for instance 'web design dorset', I bounce around from 5 down to 8, when I play with on page content, normally it dives into page two results.. When I have had it looked at, the general comments I get is around the footer links. When I remove them (or some of them), down the front page dives..

    So on page its got to be there or there abouts..

    With in bound I just have links from the projects I have worked on. These are spread around my landing pages...

    When I use the link building tools I have I never really see any improvement in position.

    I have no issue writing articles, but the sites I have used in the past, don't have a massive effect.

    I think its a case Im too close to the problem, but its hard to find anyone you can trust/afford etc..

    So Im at the stage where I will consider any idea..
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    I know people are going to say things like ‘use Moz it's amazing, but to be honest, I don’t think they add much beyond what SEO Profiler does.

    I would probably pay you not to use Moz actually lol. I think it's terrible. I think Moz is one of the main reasons as to why SEO is so misunderstood with newcomers. Don't get me wrong, some of their articles are informative, SOME of their tools are good. But domain authority, page authority is so inaccurate it's unbelievable. It's pricing is ridiculous too, for what it is. Don't get me started on their API pricing either lol.

    From what I've seen, a lot of the veterans of SEOchat use SEO Powersuite, also free tools like ScreamingFrog are very, very useful.

    If you're looking to buy, personally SEO Powersuite wins hands down, it's a one-off fee, more features than Moz, yet you'd pay more in a month for Moz than you would a whole copy of SEO Powersuite. I got it recently as I've outgrown free tools, and it's what I would personally describe as the swiss knife of SEO.

    *Not affiliated with them... just my opinion.


    Last edited by matt1966; Nov 14th, 2017 at 10:22 AM.
    Yorkshire tea will probably answer your question...
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    I started with IBP which for a long time was really good. Where the wheels started to fall off for me, was because its a windows app, if it does lots of searches, Google can end up blocking your ip.. (Still really like the top 10 tool).

    I have moved on now to SEO Profiler.. I like it because it give me things to action (i.e. title tag is being used in this way by the top three sites, this is what you need to do to be the same etc..)

    Where it falls short with the on-page is that is does not understand things like semantic markup, so it encourages you to put the h1 at the top of the source, no matter where the page copy is.

    The link building aspect is weak also. Its all very well doing the comment thing, but in all the time I have tried it, it makes no real difference.

    So as said, Im so far, but I cant get any further and unsure where to go..
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    HI Toxitalk

    Originally Posted by IvanDrago
    Tools are just helpful guides at best,
    .....
    Don't even consider buying links from Fiver and the like, that way lies a painful demise
    He is pretty much right. The tools are great for stripping away the cover over the content. Whos want to visit a page, view the source code, look at all the bloat, etc, etc.. The tools save a ton of time.
    I also agree with him about your fiverr idea!

    I do think possibly you rely upon the tool to much.
    Originally Posted by Toxitalk
    I like it because it give me things to action (i.e. title tag is being used in this way by the top three sites, this is what you need to do to be the same etc..)
    As you stated
    Originally Posted by Toxitalk
    does not understand things like semantic markup
    That's not such an uncommon problem with tools as you would think.

    Let me explain.

    Say I got a site, topic is carbon footprint

    Of the three lines below which is more relevant that the others to carbon footprint?
    (no cheating, don't read past the 3 lines till you pick an answer.)

    Will water stand on this surface or slide off?
    Two feet of silt has been deposited over the last year?
    That person is not very stable upstairs ?

    carbon footprint
    the amount of carbon dioxide and other carbon compounds emitted due to the consumption of fossil fuels by a particular person, group, etc.

    Because of the high carbon footprint of Society, Global warming has started to melt the icecaps and the rivers have flooded. As a result, Two feet of silt has been deposited over the last year in some areas. Devastation Imminent !

    Tools can't at this time, from what's available on the market today, (in my opinion) make this determination. They have various degrees of success with it. LOL

    See what I mean, how did semiconductor get in there... . I explicitly put lsi and seo in the same context. I am definitely not asking about "large scale integration".



    As for matt1966's recommendation.

    I now know 5 people on this forum that use it. 3 are Mods.
    Last edited by KnowOneSpecial; Nov 15th, 2017 at 03:44 AM. Reason: spelling correction
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    Im also wonder if web designers are not the best people to look at with regards to SEO markup.

    With the .uk I think I need to go back and put together a semantically clean page and then look how you would style this.

    If I cant get to the style I want, I then have to make the choice to either focus on either the visual design or SEO..

    Thoughts at the moment...

    <nav>including logo as brand</nav>
    <section>Page CTA/banner</section>
    <main>
    <article><header><h1>seo phrase</h1><p>intro text</h1></header><Section><h2>section heading</h2><p>section text</p></section>(repeat sections until)</article></main>
    <aside><nav>footer menu</nav></aside>
    <footer>site credits</footer>

    So what I'm saying is that the page furniture needs to be outside of main.

    Im using bootstrap so within the <nav> they have the idea of brand, which is really your logo.

    Below the nav is a banner/cta which would be its own section.

    Main then starts at this point.

    I want the first h1 to be the title of the 'article', <header> sits inside of Article, below this the page is split into sections (if I want google to consider the whole block of copy as 'one article' then their would not be any sections..

    after the article I have a second nav inside an aside and then the footer.

    My only question...

    On the current theme I have intro text with testimonials along side, and then underneath three things I offer, before getting to the outro text and other info (to the right..)

    Im unsure if each of these should be seen as sections, or if these are infact just one article... Im going to go with sections until I know better.

    Should be interesting to see the result.
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    I am going to offer an opinion.... just an opinion....

    Originally Posted by Toxitalk
    I think its a case Im too close to the problem
    I am going to agree with you....

    I like the KISS principle, keep it simply simple

    You are analyzing this too much. Your structure does not have to be that complicated. Really no one layout is more important than another for seo value on the whole. What works is what easily and simply explains the site to Google. Keep it clean.

    I think you would benefit from going here, with your favorite beverage. Just read for a while...
    https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML_structural_elements that page explains it more elegantly than I.

    The below is from it. It will change how you look at things.

    Last edited by KnowOneSpecial; Nov 15th, 2017 at 01:11 PM. Reason: typo corrections
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    Thanks for your advice, I do appreciate it..

    Have had a go with https://www.websitesbymark.uk/

    To me I think the html5 markup is now right for what I'm trying to achieve.

    Would be interested in a point of view though.
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    Ok....Mate ! Remember you said....
    Originally Posted by Toxitalk
    Have had a go with https://www.websitesbymark.uk/

    To me I think the html5 markup is now right for what I'm trying to achieve.

    Would be interested in a point of view though.
    I can see you have had a go at it... quite interesting it is.

    There is "Nothing Wrong With Your HTML5 Markup". It is fine. Like I said, you're are over thinking it.

    I took that last line to mean another point of view. Ok here is my point of view. This is just my opinion really, I could very well be "Wrong", but I really do not think so.

    I took a very serious look at your site and and dug in a little deep.

    Please keep in mind this is not an attack on your site, it is just a very honest analysis.


    1. You have taken a cookie cutter approach with your site. Churning out what Google most likely is thinking are "Doorways", there is too much in common with the many other pages. Your h1, your h2's ect etc, they are clones of each other with only the city name changing for most part. Ok now you will say, but the content is unique. Well, it is to some extent. Just for the moment lets assume I am correct.

    2. You have this footer menu (see image). To me this screams, "doorway" more than anything else. You probably should reconsider this approach. Looks rather spammy imho.


    3. You have have actually created some nice sites for your clients. I looked at them, not bad. I do have a concern. You do know that you only need a single link from a site, right ? Why have you done the following on your clients sites. You didn't do it just once, but to every page on the site. Here are a few examples of what I mean.
    On many client sites you have this on every page ... the double barrel link.


    Then on others you seem to think more is better... Google has the local 3 pak, you got the whole site 4 pak. Every page of the site !
    Prior to Google changing the way Penguin works, I would be sorely tempted to label your site as churn and burn.


    Now lets look at it from the outside.
    Look at this picture below..
    You have roughly 1000 ips linking to you and those ips on average are sending you 21 links each. Now you and I both now know on some sites, it is way higher. On the sites you have built or take care of every page of a site is generating 2 to 4 links. Some of those sites have 20 pages, so that site is sending 80 links your way. Why should a site send you 80 links, really no reason actually. One ("1") is needed to do the job. You are diluting your clients PR so badly.

    Now also consider that your ratio of "do" to "no" follow links. %99.9 are followed. Completely artificial, I see this, more importantly Google sees this as well. That's the entity to fear here.

    Now This is a likely state of things for you. Since I don't work for Google, I really don't know... but here goes.

    Congratulations. You have created your very own PBN. Yeap, you have. Google has tagged and bagged it. That's one of the reasons you can't make any progress. Everything you do is to manipulate the SE's.
    I am sorry, this strategy will never work. It is doing more harm than you think, and will never help, I am afraid.

    I am honestly at a loss, I don't think anyone can help you but yourself. You need to clean up your methods.
    You have a lot of work ahead.

    Comments on this post

    • matt1966 agrees : And KOS is at it again lol
    Last edited by KnowOneSpecial; Nov 15th, 2017 at 05:58 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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    Thanks for coming back to me.

    The footer link part is something that has happened over time (on my main site) and post getting the markup right on the .uk, there will be a lot of changes.

    Although I do take everything you said verbatim (posh word for this time of the morning), each time I have tried to move more in the direction your talking about, Google has push me down in the rankings globally, so the current version is really the best ranking version of the site i can get.

    Keeping with the footer part http://www.danashtonwebsites .co. uk/ does the same trick for a lot of dorset related searches and I have never really got to the bottom of why it works for him...

    But the above aside....

    If I was to look at the client footer links...... Would there be a general rule of thumb as to the links I should keep?

    So what I mean is a link from their home page always likely to be the best page to have a link from? Or do I need to think in other terms. The other part to that question is that at the moment for instance to my 'web design dorset' page the anchor link is likely to be 'Web design Dorset | Websites by Mark' some of the time, will this be seen as a good partial match for an incoming, too partial or over the top.

    The other aspect here is should I look to remove some of the additional links, or as Google already knows about them, its a case going forward, I just need to build the right ones?

    On the basis I just build one link from client sites, on the other pages I might still want a clickable link for 'direct traffic' purposes. Is there any method I could use, that wont have a negative effect?

    Finally I agree the copy is fairly similar on the landing pages... If this copy was different enough would this be enough, or realistically do I need to look to build a different site for every location I want to rank for? (There wont be twenty sites as some of the location could be targeted for a single page 'i.e. Oxford and Oxfordshire, Portland and Weymouth etc..')

    Also if Im looking to build links from non client sites, should I be looking to build as many non follow links as this would bring down the ratio? (In my head to progress I saw the opposite, but from what you were saying I have this wrong.).

    Thanks for you help and I may PM you if thats ok?

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