Page 7 - The Sticky for Meta Description, keywords, keyword density, and title tags

I'm a simple guy... I read what you wrote and post on what you write... so who are these nameless SEOs that I have mistakenly thought was me?

The only "blanket statement" IMHO was yours... and your blanket examples that bear absolutely no resemblance to real world SEO aren't meant to help me or anyone else understand.

BTW... you're way "OFF TOPIC" for this thread... you came in with the notion that keyword density was valuable and we now agree you didn't mean "density"... as in:

The amount per unit size
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

The density of a material is defined as its mass per unit volume: Different materials usually have different densities, so density is an important ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density

A measure of the amount of matter contained by a given volume; The ratio of one quantity to that of another quantity
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/density

In order for anything to have "density" that you can compare you need to measure it... so your page for better ranks might have 5% density (which is absolutely rubbish)

So it might be wise to drop the:



The fact that you can't even get your terminology accurate they also have a page for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_(usage)

In this case: Idiot is a word derived from the Greek ἰδιώτης, idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill,") you lack SEO skills...

Seriously no one wrote that keywords weren't useful... I'm writing that keyword DENSITY is useless (and so was everyone else in this thread - BUT YOU) and you're inaccruately trying to defend it.

Lets just say that we do not agree completely on this subject and leave it at that.

Honesty, I was really looking forward to discussing this and other SEO topics with you and the other members. I work 70-80 hours per week and have very little time to spend with my wife and children as it is, but I thought getting involved in this forum would give me a good opportunity to get to know other people in my profession and share ideas and discuss topics.

But instead, this has been a very negative experience for me. I regret taking time away from my family for this. I have gained nothing from this experience but frustration, because we have done nothing but talk about opinions...

If you have so much knowledge, then share some of it... Show me a legitimate case study, some definitive data, a official statement from Google anything at all that substantiate what you say... heck, I would even accept your word for it, if you told me about your own experiences and how you tested these assumptions...

The bottom line is, my Opinion... your Opinion... and others opinions don't really mean anything without data and facts to back them up...

So if neither of use have any "HARD FACTS" then let us end the conversation.

At this point, I am not sure whether or not I will continue my involvement with this forum, but I respectfully request that If I do... please do not respond to my posts unless you want to share your knowledge with me or discuss something with me in a respectful way... I don't need anymore stress in my life, and neither of us gains anything from it... as you said before "I could be out building backlinks" or spending time with my family.

Why must I show you all this... you're the one "claiming" it's useful... I would think you have legitimate case studies to support your claim, some definitive data, a official statement from Google anything at all that substantiates what you say...

I don't recall "guessing" as anything more that a lack of insight...



If you can't legitimize your own position... maybe that's the problem...

I have lots of test cases... that produce "nulls"... and the thing about a null it doesn't prove anything - it's the absense of proof... and because you seem to suggest you "have proof of a positive"... that's more than I have...

Be that as it may... we both know you are "merely guessing"... and that's why you are frustrated... a look of 90% of my 10K posts would show... you aren't the first person to "guess" and pass that off as "advice" and then get frustrated that I will not accept your advice purely on faith.

...So don't ask me to defend your position by getting me to do your job that you suggest in your advice you already have done... you're "claiming it's works" (not I) ... I get a null (serveral in fact)... and you get?

That's the real question.

In Googles SEO guide they say that it is important to include your keywords in the body content but they warn you not to stuff keywords...

If Google is telling you to include your keywords in the body content... but they warn you not to keyword stuff, then there has to be a way for them to judge whether or not you are stuffing keywords?

Read this article wriiten by a mathematics professor http://www.miislita.com/fractals/keyword-density-optimization.html

It explains why keyword density is irrelivent.

Amplification

Test This

Link Anchors - "Place Link Here"...

Title Element - "Place Title Here"

Page Title - "Place Title Here"

Internal Nav Links to the page - "Link Here"...

...now test the value of using 1 keyword on a page, 2, 5, 10, 50, 100... and see how well any perform.

When you remove "the value offered by factors which are superior in their offered value... you get a better vantagepoint than "doing everything in SEO all at the same time".

Such a test shows the difference between 1 use to 1000 uses of the same thing is equal to blowing into your sailboat's sail... "YES" there is an impact... but the return isn't equal to forward motion...

In the same context... a keyword (or 2, 3, 5, etc.) on a page doesn't make a page anymore competitive than not having a word on the page.

Here's an example: cape cod funeral homes and cape cod funerals

funerals-usa.com/massachusetts/ is #4 - #6... no where on this domain is "cape cod" mentioned... so the density is 0%.

In fact. Cape Cod isn't an address for a city or town... it's the bay and there are no funeral homes in the bay [but people do search for them].

A real time - real test...

Advise me on how many times I need to add cape cod to the page to increase it's ranks to #1 (or move it a single position?)

I will not add it to title element nor in headers (H1 to H2)

but we can add as much "cape cod" as you wish to impact on better ranks.

I did not start this debate, I simply commented about my experiences to another member who inferred that density was completely meaningless, and I disagreed... I think that saying "it is completely meaningless" could be misleading.

This poster provided no evidence for their statements, you initiated a debate with me about it, but you provide no evidence... yet now you expect me to to prove you are wrong?

I have to go for now... I will read the article the other poster suggested and I will consider your most recent post.... My past experiences tell me that I density can be relevant depending upon circumstances, but I am not so stubborn that I am unwilling to listen to other peoples opinions and advice.

Who?

What post?

The problem with doing SEO on customers domains and using that as your "only experience for advice"... customers don't take to kindly to trialing for density... they want results... and the problem with delivering on results is that you didn't test "just density" you test that SEO itself works.

I've gone out on a limb here and doing you a favor to offer you a real time, real world, real environment example for your (or maybe my) education...

Either the density of keywords on a page is "useful" for enhancement of ranks or "they are just there for the ride and don't really add (nor detract) from an SEOs abilities.

That's "USEFUL" for all members to understand and you can really "shut up" a so-called know-it-all to boot.

So what would make the perfect number of times a keyword should be on the page?

Is meta keyword still being read by search engine?

No! (not by google, yahoo or msn)

"READ"? Yes...

"USED TO ORDER RANKS"? No!

This thread would have been real pain for fathom even though he tried to help out others, anyways I would like to share my 2 cents according to my experience for keyword density, I agree what fathom says about keyword density that there is no specific amount or percentage which is good for SEO. But one more thing I like to add is Keyword density should be more than 5% atleast. As search engines crawls pages, they have to figure out, what does this page is about. And with the help of LSI factors (keyword density is one) they figure out the relevancy of the page. Again, there is no specific amount of keyword density which is good. But density above 5% is always good and recommended!