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  1. Savior of the Whales
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    Secrets of PENGUIN -- revealed ?


    Well, I said it first, the secrete of penguin is googles NEW MANTRA = " SHO me da Money " ... so much for do no evil.

    Does any one think it is possible that penguin just came out and also got TWEEKED at the same timeS that the new shopping methodology was implemented??

    See CNN news
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/28/tech/web/bing-scroogled/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    ********** scoop QUOTED

    "In the beginning, Google preached, 'Don't be evil' -- but that changed on May 31, 2012. That's when Google Shopping announced a new initiative. Simply put, all of their shopping results are now paid ads," reads the campaign's mission statement. It goes on to say "when you limit choices and rank them by payment, consumers get Scroogled."

    The accusations are based on real changes. To appear in Google Shopping results, merchants must now pay for Google's Product Listing Ads. The company publicly announced the switch from free listings to a paid-inclusion system in May, and the transition was completed on October 17 in the United States. The new Google Shopping will roll out in more countries starting in February.



    Why is Google being investigated? "The primary point is, we think they should stop the practice of pay to rank, or at least make it very clear what's going on," said Stefan Weitz, senior director at Bing.

    *********** end quote

    We should all say GOODBYE to our OLD FRIEND google ... many of us did make a lot of money playing with them ... but now they have passed on to the afterlife of lust and greed, so NO NEED TO WORRY ANY MORE ABOUT HOW TO FIX PENGUIN PROBLEMS ... we already have the cookbook ... it is BUY ADWORDS ....buy more adwords ... hell, just send all your money to google and go on food stamps ...
    Last edited by JoeBob; Nov 29th, 2012 at 11:26 AM. Reason: complete thought
    *** Search Engine News, Jesus helps JOE BOB SEO save the whales. ***
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  3. Agency SEO
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    Originally Posted by JoeBob
    Well, I said it first, the secrete of penguin is googles NEW MANTRA = " SHO me da Money " ... so much for do no evil.

    Does any one think it is possible that penguin just came out and also got TWEEKED at the same timeS that the new shopping methodology was implemented??

    See CNN news
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/28/tech/web/bing-scroogled/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    ********** scoop QUOTED

    "In the beginning, Google preached, 'Don't be evil' -- but that changed on May 31, 2012. That's when Google Shopping announced a new initiative. Simply put, all of their shopping results are now paid ads," reads the campaign's mission statement. It goes on to say "when you limit choices and rank them by payment, consumers get Scroogled."

    The accusations are based on real changes. To appear in Google Shopping results, merchants must now pay for Google's Product Listing Ads. The company publicly announced the switch from free listings to a paid-inclusion system in May, and the transition was completed on October 17 in the United States. The new Google Shopping will roll out in more countries starting in February.



    Why is Google being investigated? "The primary point is, we think they should stop the practice of pay to rank, or at least make it very clear what's going on," said Stefan Weitz, senior director at Bing.

    *********** end quote

    We should all say GOODBYE to our OLD FRIEND google ... many of us did make a lot of money playing with them ... but now they have passed on to the afterlife of lust and greed, so NO NEED TO WORRY ANY MORE ABOUT HOW TO FIX PENGUIN PROBLEMS ... we already have the cookbook ... it is BUY ADWORDS ....buy more adwords ... hell, just send all your money to google and go on food stamps ...
    Tell us how you really feel

    I get ya and in many cases you're preaching to the choir. however I see nothing evil in charging for services which is what they are doing with shopping. Was penguin designed to increase Google's revenue from PPC, imo yes. Same with EMD.

    Here's where the perception of evil comes in: A person invests in a company that sells primarily online, builds their business, makes their money then gets dumped off the first page by a Google update. Businessman loses business, loses house, wife runs off with the tennis pro, kids turn to drugs. I get it.

    Google can do whatever they want but I don't think anyone can argue that if you build a business through positive ROI through PPC you are in a much safer environment than if the majority of your business comes from organic ranks.

    eggs in 1 basket could equal broken eggs.

    Comments on this post

    • joshz agrees : eggs in 1 basket could equal broken eggs.
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  5. What The Feck..
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

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    I have always said that the do no evil policy is just a gimmick. Do you really think Google is a people friendly company as it used to be ?

    Lately they have tried to take unfair advantage of their market dominance and use it to their advantage ( keeping ethics and all the "do no evil" Bulls**t policy aside )

    Earlier people used to brand MS as a greedy monster but many people don't know that bill gates is one of the biggest donors as far as charity is concerned and what is Google doing ?

    The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation has been actively funding AIDS and malaria studies in africa and asia and what is google doing ( taken from google.org -

    Latest news
    Something to smile about: A 5,000-mile walk across Asia, guided by Google Maps

    LOL

    Comments on this post

    • joshz agrees : FYI you have a spelling error on the "On-page & Website Audit" hoverover. There's an extra E.
  6. #4
  7. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by JoeBob
    Well, I said it first
    It baffles me why you think you (and those like you) are the only ones allowed to make a buck... "from your own domain".

    I could see you having issues with Google selling ads on your domain and cutting you out of the pie - but their own????????

    Comments on this post

    • EGOL agrees : They are "finally" becoming good webmasters.
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    I can say (initially) I honestly did not know how Google was so dang successfull..

    Then we signed up with Adwords.

    Ca ching ! ca ching !!!
    Yikes !
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    Well, Microsoft has been doing a bit of a turnaround in the last few years. I remember when they were the favorite guys to bash.

    It's interesting to see Bing put up the Scroogled site. This goes beyond friendly competition - looks like MS is really trying to provoke the government to take action. Very rare for a large corporation to launch such a direct attack and question the underlying motives of a competitor.

    My hope is Bing or some other SE will take significant market share from Google. Google is an advertisement company - period. Their search engine has become an ad engine. MS has Bing as a break-even enterprise that is a small part of their overall portfolio. I hope MS will hang in there for the long term while Google erodes due to their biased listings.

    It's not that Google shouldn't make money selling ads. It's the way they have taken SERPs that people for years have trusted to be unbiased, and injected ads that are purposely blended into the page, pushing down the organic results below the fold.

    It's like watching a movie where Coke and Apple are blatantly injected into the scene. You can get away with a little of that, but when it's obvious the whole thing is a thinly-disguised advertisement, you've jumped the shark.

    You may as well crack open the Yellow Pages.

    Ed
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  13. SEO Consultant
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    I don't get it at all. If everybody is so upset and emotional about Google then switch careers. Do something that isn't so dynamic and changing. Perhaps an assembly line worker.

    You negative nancy's have the wrong idea. The changes in Google are a good thing. It's job security, if you know how to do proper SEO.

    Anybody who thinks ANY corporation does no evil needs a reality check.

    It's business.
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  15. Savior of the Whales
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    Happy Capitalist


    Don't get me wrong ... I am all for people making an honest buck ... webmasters, google, and seo consultants too ... I am not a communist ...

    But when you turn around and step on on those same small people who collectively "brought you to the party" so to speak ... then you have crossed over the line and you know how that ends ... (like gus said ... if you ride with an outlaw, then you die with an outlaw).... those same MILLIONS of small business owners who in large part helped propell google along their road to their success are the same people google has labeled spammers for years and now is extorting their extra pound of flesh from just to assuage "googles greed" .... when in point of fact ... the SPAMMIEST content on the internet is GOOGLES SHOPPING SERPS AND ANY OTHER HIGHLY COMPETITIVE COMMERCIAL SEARCH RESULT... talk about DOUBLE TALK.

    Also, I have never personally believed googles "do no evil" bs either ... but many of the public did and continues to believe it ... and so my point about that ... is for google to continue that line today is kind of like being a bully when the younger kids are around and then HIDING BEHIND YOUR SISTERS SKIRT on the playground when the big boys come to play

    But, maybe I am asking too much to expect google to step out from behind their sisters skirt and quit being deceptive about what they are doing?

    Anyhow, the point of this forum is all about the penguin cookbook ... not the anti-social behavior patters of greedy immigrants .... and it seems to me that the solution to penguin is much less complicated than has been theorized on this site. so far as I know ... the ONLY verified penguin recovery story I have heard is BUYING ADWORDS ....

    BYW ... making ADWORDS the only reliable way to make money on google is NOT MUCH JOB SECURITY for fast thinkers anyway ... anyone can manage an ADWORDS account with out much help ... so this general TREND in DEVALUING organic serps .... is not good news for REAL SEO experts ... if you think otherwise you need to think again ... (unless you are calling managing an adwords acct "seo services" ... in which case we are using a different VOCABULARY)
    Last edited by JoeBob; Nov 29th, 2012 at 08:22 PM. Reason: nothing better to do than proof read my own post again...
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  17. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by JoeBob
    BYW ... making ADWORDS the only reliable way to make money on google is NOT MUCH JOB SECURITY for fast thinkers anyway ... anyone can manage an ADWORDS account with out much help ... so this general TREND in DEVALUING organic serps .... is not good news for REAL SEO experts ... if you think otherwise you need to think again ... (unless you are calling managing an adwords acct "seo services" ... in which case we are using a different VOCABULARY)
    Amateurs probably have issues... I can appreciate that would be an issue and I see why Google does not like supporting amateurs they cause real businesses to webspam Google.

    But genuine experts use multiple channels - organic, cpp (and generalized display ads), mobile, social media, local and even offline when appropriate.

    So the likely problem here is... you are probably not that sophisticated in your SEO abilities.
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  19. Agency SEO
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    Originally Posted by JoeBob
    Don't get me wrong ... I am all for people making an honest buck ... webmasters, google, and seo consultants too ... I am not a communist ...

    But when you turn around and step on on those same small people who collectively "brought you to the party" so to speak ... then you have crossed over the line and you know how that ends ...
    It seems to be ending with them making billions in profit per quarter. This is what Google is supposed to do, they are a company with shareholders.
    Originally Posted by JoeBob
    BYW ... making ADWORDS the only reliable way to make money on google is NOT MUCH JOB SECURITY for fast thinkers anyway ... anyone can manage an ADWORDS account with out much help
    Anyone can manage an adwords account, the trick is to squeeze out every possible dime of positive ROI. There are relatively few who do this well.
    Originally Posted by JoeBob
    ... so this general TREND in DEVALUING organic serps .... is not good news for REAL SEO experts ...
    Brother I hate for it to seem like I am picking on you but you are just wrong. With every huge Google update starting with Florida in 2003 the spammers and pretenders get flushed away opening a whole new set of potential clients for those who make this their life's work. SEO is hard and getting harder, this is a good thing because if you can figure it out you can do really well for yourself. If it was easy, anyone could do it!
    Last edited by KernelPanic; Nov 30th, 2012 at 05:26 AM.
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  21. the mango demon
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    I will Echo the sentiments of a "Google - I love you" zombie.

    Microsoft as a company does not invest in big things. Bill Gates does, partly because Warren Buffet decided to give away his riches to a good cause. Microsoft is no way involved.

    Google on the other hand has invested heavily towards the making of a better world. They have invested in pushing the limits of technology, they have invested in green energy and much more.

    While people can go gaga over Apple and sell their kids to buy the latest iPad why is it wrong if google decides to charge people to send them business. That's what you are doing and that's what I am doing. If we can be crazy when Google bites into our Pie Google can launch Penguin when we Bite into their pie.

    Welcome penguin.
    All I can say is I am getting more calls after penguin than what I did before it.
    Last edited by NewDelhiSEO; Nov 30th, 2012 at 06:35 AM.
    SEO Professionals in NewDelhi It is different. Don't believe me? Go check yourself.
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  23. Contributing User
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    As a businessman myself I can't understand why people would get so upset over ppc unless they run very small limited companies. If your company relies only on organic search it is eventually doomed and always limited on growth. I see nothing wrong with paying for search in ppc, the only free advertising is word of mouth. I'm not taking Google's side here, as an SEO it can be a PITA following algorithm changes but the point is if SEO was properly done from the start of a website there would be no issues currently. Google never said "spam the Sh*t out of your website, create bullsh*t backlinks,keyword stuff your site until it looks like it was written by an eight year old in India" I understand the frustration of small business owners who are losing money due to recent changes, but Google is a company too and it needs to profit. If small business owners made the right choices from the get go these things would be non issues right now.

    I guess my point is, if you invested in a good content writer and a white hat SEO for your marketing from the start, you wouldn't have a problem right now. Worry about the grand scale profit, not the quick return if you want to succeed.
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  25. Savior of the Whales
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    Originally Posted by KernelPanic
    It seems to be ending with them making billions in profit per quarter.
    Well nothing personal kernel, but that conclusion reflects a typically fallacious American perspective. It is commonly argued by many that only a FEW folks here seem to be able to think past 5pm TODAY, and a lot of those can only visualize up until the next payday. Even those precious few who can conceptualize the “long view” tend to not be able to think past their next divorce…

    This game is NOT “ ….over” … not by even the wildest stretch of a shortsighted imagination (or even the total lack of imagination). I recall after Yahoo achieved their dominance, everyone was going on … and on… about how there was “not room in the internet for another new search engine” … and well, everyone who can read knows that game is also NOT “ ….over” … yet …

    Anyway … the historical fact is this … no service company can survive over the Long Run … which has a corporate policy to “dump” on the very client base that contributed significantly to their initial success. In this business, web developers are the equivalent of software developers in the “Microsoft model” by way of comparison.

    If only about HALF of the webmasters in America would put this in YourDomain.com/robots.txt file :

    User-agent: Googlebot
    Disallow: /

    then.... google would be out of business entirely… and the other search engines would learn to avoid such a stupid act as to let their pay per click salespersons manually rank their serps. But this will NOT happen before 5pm today, so MOST Americans will not be able to visualize it J
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    I'm trying not to be on the fence here but I find myself agreeing with both views, to an extent. It's true to say that good seos will prevail against google and its updates, but up to a point - this will depend on the clients patience and understanding of whats happened ( a big update that blew you out of the serps, and then the next one... ), and his ability to continue paying bearing in mind the current economy and the damage the serps drop has done to him. Seo fees are much higher pro rata than they ever were, mainly because so much more work is required today v 10 years ago. Small businesses, with whom i have so much sympathy are struggling with this. That and various cases of google giving helping hands to big companies, as i have said before is an indirect and direct manipulation of the serps.

    Some serps in my sectors are rubbish, 1 search i did a few weeks ago returned a brand leader 89 times out of the top ten pages. Thats just wrong and of no value to anyone, well except the brand leader and google.

    I havent done this test myself yet, but Im told running and adwords campaign can assist your serps. If true, this seems to be the point at which a search engine ceases to be a search engine as we know it, and in terms of google, its not the google I used to love. The google I loved was free, a bit left field with a nice ethos, but that was a long time ago.

    Google is now a massive company with shareholders, they must make money and nothing else matters, no level playing field and whatever it takes must be done. What annoys me most about them today is the smoke and mirrors, the non-answers, the misinformation, and whenever they get cornered the ultimate answer is its all for user experience, and thats just BS. The correct answer is its all for google profits - just say it !!!! Its worse than Area 51.

    When you get a company this powerful dominating a sector so strongly we're all in trouble. We all need that competiton, we need Bing and Yahoo to get equal market share with google. This would make all 3 of them REALLY make better serps, more competition in ppc prices and less reliance on 1 engine.

    Moreover, the bigger picture here with google is its insatiable apetite for our data. Its constantly watching we do what we search, reads our emails, G+ to get even more data from us, what we do, where we live, dob, - if things stay as they are within 10 years or so google will know more about us than we do lol. As they say Knowledge is Power, and if google isnt already it could be the most powerful entity on the planet. What would it do with all that data ? Wow, imagine the targetted ad fees to start with !
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  29. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by Sinclairos
    this will depend on the clients patience and understanding of whats happened ( a big update that blew you out of the serps, and then the next one... ), and his ability to continue paying bearing in mind the current economy and the damage the serps drop has done to him.
    Anyone can manipulate results and confuse that with SEO Practitioning (or rather pretend to customers that is SEOing).

    If your point occurs - clearly you (or whomever) is offering black hat trickery... but advising the customer in advance of implementation of that and assuming they agreed, they wouldn't have any problem sticking with you through the rough patch.
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