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    Penguin is refreshing regularly.


    John Mueller mentioned in a Google hangout recently that Penguin is refreshing quite often. Here is the video. Start listening at about 3:52 and then pay close attention to what he says at 4:11.



    He says that Penguin is rerun regularly...not quite weekly or daily. But according to what Google has announced, the only refreshes have been April 24 (original rollout), May 25 and October 5.

    That brings up all sorts of questions in my mind. I'd love to hear what fathom thinks of this. I remember him saying that his testing showed that sites could be hit by Penguin on a non-announced Penguin day. Perhaps it is these silent reruns that is causing that.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Dr.Marie; Feb 19th, 2013 at 04:16 PM.
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    fathom, fathom, fathom....is he buying you flowers or something....JK
    I keep getting an error..try again later on the video.
    It does seem to be happening quite often and wasn't Google constantly running updates a few years ago...back around 07, 08. or is my memory stuck in a clog.
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    The video should be working now...I tried to put embed code that allowed the video to start at a certain time.
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    Given that these updates don't apply across the board I think that they are rolled out more progressively than hitting a switch. I am currently working on a very competitive term with high commercial value and the site in position 3 should be hit by penguin but appears not to be.
    I think these are rolled out progressively but with major tweaks to them being called updates.
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    Perhaps there are two things going on:

    1) Google constantly monitoring site profiles (weekly like JohnMu says) and then killing links as the link profile reaches a certain level.

    2) The Penguin updates - Google updates the algorithm which decides the level at which a link profile triggers a devaluation.

    So Penguin is constantly running but after an announced update its algorithm is slightly different.
    Last edited by giggity; Feb 19th, 2013 at 04:37 PM.
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    Originally Posted by giggity
    Perhaps there are two things going on:

    1) Google constantly monitoring site profiles (weekly like JohnMu says) and then killing links as the link profile reaches a certain level.

    2) The Penguin updates - Google updates the algorithm which decides the level at which a link profile triggers a devaluation.

    So Penguin is constantly running but after an announced update its algorithm is slightly different.
    Where would Google be getting this information to monitor site profiles?
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    Maybe I didn't explain myself well.

    JohnMu says that Penguin is running more frequently that Google originally suggested.

    Perhaps they are running the Penguin algorithm every week or less but they are making changes to the algorithm itself at the times that they have publicly announced.

    So version 1. of Penguin was running/refreshing weekly, but then once they announced an update Penguin 2. would be running/refreshing weekly.

    A site may have the same link profile, but version 1. thought it was OK but now version 2. doesn't.

    But also a site may change its link profile through link building/deletion and trigger something when Penguin is run weekly.

    Not sure if that makes any sense whatsoever but from what JohnMu says there must be a difference between the regular refreshes and the updates that Google announces publicly.
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    So now John Mueller is saying that he mis-spoke. Here is a Google Plus thread:

    https://plus.google.com/108833983815...ts/iLaBosTVgHr

    John says: "I was probably a bit too fast there . While we do rerun link analysis regularly, the "Penguin" algorithm is in the stage we don't do regular pushes of all of the data in the same way that we update Panda once a month or so, for example. We're always working on improving that, of course. "

    So what does that mean?

    I asked him whether it was possible for a Penguin hit site to recover from its Penguin issues on a day other than an actual refresh. We'll see if he responds.
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    Originally Posted by Dr.Marie
    So now John Mueller is saying that he mis-spoke. Here is a Google Plus thread:

    https://plus.google.com/108833983815...ts/iLaBosTVgHr

    John says: "I was probably a bit too fast there . While we do rerun link analysis regularly, the "Penguin" algorithm is in the stage we don't do regular pushes of all of the data in the same way that we update Panda once a month or so, for example. We're always working on improving that, of course. "

    So what does that mean?

    I asked him whether it was possible for a Penguin hit site to recover from its Penguin issues on a day other than an actual refresh. We'll see if he responds.
    Here's my take. It's like working on a car. Again, MY OPINION. You can tune your car, Dyno it, adjust computer settings, etc. But you really won't go balls to the wall until you're on the drag strip.

    This is how I see his explanation. We're constantly 'fine tuning it' - perhaps controlled testing? Perhaps internal testing, etc. But I think the modifications and adjustments to the update is what is regularly addressed or in question - then, when they're happy with A/B testing, they release it globally.
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    John says: "I was probably a bit too fast there . While we do rerun link analysis regularly, the "Penguin" algorithm is in the stage we don't do regular pushes of all of the data in the same way that we update Panda once a month or so, for example. We're always working on improving that, of course. "

    So what does that mean?
    I think it means They have webmasters doing it for them through the disavow tool.

    I asked him whether it was possible for a Penguin hit site to recover from its Penguin issues on a day other than an actual refresh. We'll see if he responds.
    He did respond, kinda skirts around the answer to a degree. I think what he's saying is new data will always change the serps. But that's true with additional/changed data in any computer.
    Last edited by Test-ok; Feb 21st, 2013 at 01:53 AM.
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    This article on SEL may be relevant No, Google Hasn't Released Unannounced Penguin Updates Barry mentions that "Google said John was referring to general “link analysis” refreshes but not the Penguin algorithm." (see just below the video).

    So it sounds like google are constantly analysing links and refreshing the data they have for those, but not pushing penguin refreshes link with panda.
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    So what exactly is the difference between a link analysis refresh and Penguin?

    Fathom has said that he has recovered tens of sites from Penguin so there must be something else going on here.
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    Originally Posted by giggity
    So what exactly is the difference between a link analysis refresh and Penguin?

    Fathom has said that he has recovered tens of sites from Penguin so there must be something else going on here.
    Personally I would read the two as being:
    1. link analysis refresh - when google updates the links it has stored as being bad links.
    2. penguin refresh - google refreshing sites which have bad links etc.

    That would make sense to me from what John said, but if that's what google is doing or not is another story! I guess we just have to take their word for it and play smart lol, but hay, as long as people aren't playing bad when building links all should be well
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    Any more input here as to how sites have been recovering outside of Penguin refresh dates?
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    Not sure where I was in February but obviously I did miss a couple of important clues that John noted.

    I have leaned towards a re-RUN was not required but that was based on seeing results come back without any Google updated announcements.

    I have successful caged PENGUIN and seen positive results in 2-3 weeks without any link cleanup but it is a tradeoff that many won't want to take.

    How do you put PENGUIN is this cage?

    1. Add a subdomain that has never been used before to the affected domain
    2. Relocate entire website in that subdomain just created precisely as you have it now (normally this means move it out of the root folder)
    3. On completion of the move, deleted all records of the original website
    4. On completion, redirect all 404 page references to the domain’s default page
    5. Add a splash page using the company’s logo and an image ENTER link reference on the default homepage (default URL) with a single link to the subdomain just created and ENSURE the micro-format rel=”nofollow” is added to the link element e.g <a href=”http://domain.com” rel=”nofollow”><img src=whatever.gif /></a> and have absolutely no other links off that logo splash page. Because you do not trust anything beyond that point – nothing negative can occur beyond that point. Google automatically drops link from the link graph... problem solved. It may still exist at your default page but "who cares" you can now recover.
    6. Adjust you sitemap.xml and load to WMT


    Now your PENGUIN issues (whatever they are) are self contained and cannot affect the rest of the domain in anyway.

    Start building links. This is your only issue... what links will you build now????????

    As for whether this is or is not a refresh timeline - it doesn't matter for sites that acquired unnatural links (maybe it does for sites that offer links).

    But still there are way too many issues with link cleanup for my liking, the greatest one being lack of understanding - WHAT PRECISELY IS AN INORGANIC LINK?

    If you showed a Google Rep 1000 independent links and said which ones are inorganic... with their own tools they could see patterns that we can't. They have guaranteed insider knowledge about what is inorganic - and we are stuck with a vague interpretation of those

    The SAFE BET is to wipe out all links... no guesswork in that and no waiting to see if you guessed correctly which is why I delete the website. I don't need to ask anyone permission to remove a link, no waiting for a response that never come, disavow your complete profile saves tons of time in eyeball guessing and if the link domain wishes to link to a 404 page because you don't wish to pay $100 - it doesn't harm me.

    The links are no more problem and I have my own ready made link supply to replace what was lost.

    You may or may not know precisely what was done but the added caution neither Google thus PENGUIN is prefect... it cannot detect 100% of all inorganic links thus when you cleanup you are app to kill links that have not been devalued.

    The time it takes to nitpick links and not get the right ones is revenue lost... killing everything and being 100% sure you got the problem cornered or killed is revenue gained.

    Comments on this post

    • Dr.Marie agrees : Thank you for this.
    Last edited by fathom; Jul 23rd, 2013 at 01:59 PM.

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