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  1. Roll the dice.. and live
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    Is page rank finally dead?


    So there has been no PR update since December last year. that one was only done as a by product of some thing else matt said "Team was fixing a different backend service and did a PR update along the way.". Before that they said something was broken in pushing the data to the tool bar…. So I wonder if they ever bothered to fix it.

    Maybe they have finally ditched it. I can no longer see a reason for google to keep it. It used to be to get people to install the toolbar.. but now with Chrome they have much better search behavior data then the toolbar can give them. I imagine it is only a very tiny number of people that have the feature activated on there toolbar even if the bar is installed…

    It must be a real gamble buying domains now based on there PR.



    Another piece of Search engine history........

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    • hantoure12 agrees : I agree with you
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    Last edited by gazzahk; Aug 15th, 2014 at 07:05 PM.
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  3. rod@missionop.com
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    For domain purchases PR was a vague starting reference to determine if a domain was any good. Just like determining if a movie is any good by knowing how much it cost to produce or who was starring in the feature. An "all star cast" is a big budget film but neither of those tidbits will determine if the film is a real stinker or Oscar material, in & of themselves.
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    Originally Posted by fathom
    For domain purchases PR was a vague starting reference to determine if a domain was any good. Just like determining if a movie is any good by knowing how much it cost to produce or who was starring in the feature. An "all star cast" is a big budget film but neither of those tidbits will determine if the film is a real stinker or Oscar material, in & of themselves.
    I therefore imagine if it is that TBPR is not to be updated again it will be a boon to experienced people like yourself, who know what else to look for when buying expired domains. So I guess the competition will soon get a whole lot less in the expired domain name field.

    For a while now (read years) I have wondered why Google has been keeping TBPR when it no longer really served any purpose.

    So here is a new business idea for you my friend run classes in how to distinguish between a good and useless expired domain….

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    • giggity agrees
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    Page rank is not dead high page rank still has authority and Google considers page rank as a trust so if you ean links from relevant high page rank sites then this will boost your website ranking well in organic searches. There is no fix date for a page rank update. In the past page rank update was expected every three months but now there is no fix timing for the update
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  9. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by gazzahk
    So here is a new business idea for you my friend run classes in how to distinguish between a good and useless expired domain….
    Try this Rotten Tomatoes: Movies | TV Shows | Movie Trailers | Reviews
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    Page rank is not necessarily dead as much as it is no longer that relevant. It does tell you it had some Relevance to some topic sphere a year ago, and that is somewhat useful, but a lot can change, and has changed in that year.

    I am working on a new quantitative metric that for me replaces PR, at least for my purposes. It involved writing my own search engine. Currently tracking about 1.3 Million domains and 5.7 Million links. I'm still in my early stages with it.

    I'm trying to solve a topic relevance problem. PR is/was a topic relevant quantitative metric.
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    Pagerank is still an important part of Google algorithm internally but but it seems that they are not releasing it as often to prevent spam.

    There was a rumor going around saying that google won't be updating any PR any more to avoid spam. I read it somewhere last year. It seems that it has been true so far.

    Either way, I don't even deal with clients or employers that want to go by it or use it as a metric. These days, my goal has been the bottom-line. Add value to the net and for the users, track traffic and conversion, learn what worked and what didn't optimize and do it again.

    Just fixing the error pages for one of my clients resulted in over 2% of increased organic conversion without raising ranking, they were pretty happy!

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    • GabrielG agrees : Lots of value in these points.
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  15. Agency SEO
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    in the old days we had 1 piece of criteria for where we should get our links from; PR. These days a skilled SEO practitioner must know how to vet a website before even thinking about trying to negotiate a link. It takes a lot of time and it makes us even more of a specialist and makes our time more valuable. Good stuff.
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    Originally Posted by fathom
    Ha ha... That would be an interesting site that offered reviews on expired domains as a way of deciding if a domain is any good.

    I imagine it would be very slow not having PR as a starting point. Already I see peoples SEOs making poor decisions based on visible PR.

    I recently had an experienced SEO ask me to remove a link from my site to a site he was working one for another. That link was from a relevant highly focused resource based page with a few other focused editorial granted links. I know the website it was asked to be removed from (The link on my site was one the owner of the site had personally asked for). That was on a PR5 page before I moved my site (since last December). My whole site now shows no PR (rankings have not changed). I imagine this persons SEO simply saw the link was on a PR 0 page with a few other links and decided that it was part of a penguin penalty. Making any decisions or advice on a person’s site based on visible PR now is pretty reckless I would think.

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    • GabrielG agrees : thanks for sharing that case study!
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  19. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by gazzahk
    Ha ha... That would be an interesting site that offered reviews on expired domains as a way of deciding if a domain is any good.

    I imagine it would be very slow not having PR as a starting point. Already I see peoples SEOs making poor decisions based on visible PR.

    I recently had an experienced SEO ask me to remove a link from my site to a site he was working one for another. That link was from a relevant highly focused resource based page with a few other focused editorial granted links. I know the website it was asked to be removed from (The link on my site was one the owner of the site had personally asked for). That was on a PR5 page before I moved my site (since last December). My whole site now shows no PR (rankings have not changed). I imagine this persons SEO simply saw the link was on a PR 0 page with a few other links and decided that it was part of a penguin penalty. Making any decisions or advice on a person’s site based on visible PR now is pretty reckless I would think.
    Just like your car. The gas gauge is not the only instrument that aids you from getting from point A to point B.

    The PageRank toolbar certainly helped but the quality of a domain is measured in more than the value announced by the toolbar.

    We once picked up PR4 domains for $250 now they are $20, PR5 $500 now less than $100. There are positives to all the negatives.
    Last edited by fathom; Aug 20th, 2014 at 08:54 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Dice79
    I'm trying to solve a topic relevance problem. PR is/was a topic relevant quantitative metric.
    My recollection of the patent document doesn't say it's about topical relevance, and that they needed the HillTop algo to correct things like CNN ranking for 'mesothelioma lawyers' just cuz it had an article on them. PR is/was about how many links you've got overall and whether they came from pages with lots of juice themselves.

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    • dzine agrees : Exactly
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    Well, maybe PR is not as accurate as before, but I think Google and also many people still use it as consideration. There are reasons why those sites got that PR in the first place. Make links with good PR pages is certainly better than making link with a 0 PR websites.
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    Originally Posted by Sayadewa
    Well, maybe PR is not as accurate as before, but I think Google and also many people still use it as consideration. There are reasons why those sites got that PR in the first place. Make links with good PR pages is certainly better than making link with a 0 PR websites.
    The displayed TBPR is now a snap shot from 10 months ago. Just because a page displays TBPR it does not mean is has any actual PR and a page that has been created/moved in the last 9 months will display no TBPR even though it may be an awesome page to have a link on. Google defiantly does not use displayed TBPR for anything to do with rankings.

    If you are basing decisions on the basis of displayed TBPR then those decisions are of very questionable value... 9 months is an eternity for the web...
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  27. rod@missionop.com
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    Originally Posted by gazzahk
    The displayed TBPR is now a snap shot from 10 months ago.
    ABSOLUTELY!

    Originally Posted by gazzahk
    Just because a page displays TBPR it does not mean is has any actual PR and a page that has been created/moved in the last 9 months will display no TBPR even though it may be an awesome page to have a link on. Google defiantly does not use displayed TBPR for anything to do with rankings.

    If you are basing decisions on the basis of displayed TBPR then those decisions are of very questionable value... 9 months is an eternity for the web...
    While each new day makes your assumptions that much more unpredictable... in all likelihood a PR4 is likely to be a natural PR4 (maybe a PR3 and while more unlikely to be a PR5) or still of similar value.

    PageRank (if you change nothing onsite) will slowly diminish over time as more and more pages are included in Google. But that process is very, very slow.

    Re-assessing this:

    If you are basing decisions on the basis of displayed TBPR then those decisions are of very questionable value
    I don't believe Google's perpetual stance on this... what they say and what they do (themselves) are two completely different things.

    Why does Google "obsess" over links? Because it is a better gauge than all previous alternatives.

    The great thing about no toolbar updates... the costs of expired domains have come WAY DOWN... since most believe as you... PR RIP!
    Last edited by fathom; Sep 13th, 2014 at 03:18 PM.
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    The Google Toolbar is how non-tech-savvy people can discover how much Google trusts a page, as represented by its PageRank value. That’s why Google added a PageRank display to its toolbar years ago, to help consumers know this, as it explains in its help area.
    But over the years, support for PageRank has dropped. Google never offered a Google Toolbar for Chrome or any add-on to show PageRank values. Google dropped the Google Toolbar for Firefox in June 2011.

    Comments on this post

    • gazzahk : Do not just copy stuff from other websites http://searchengineland.com/is-pagerank-finally-dead-it-seems-to-be-at-least-in-the-google-toolbar-170861
    • fathom : Would be nice if you actually offered something useful yourself!
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