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    My experiences with SEO


    Hey guys,

    I've started websites over the years and found mixed results based on different approaches to SEO. But in general I've found the #1 way to get real PR ranking with Google is to acquire inbound links. For me, this has been far and away the most responsive tactic, even moreso than a regularly updated website.

    A second observation I would like to share is that those of my websites that were programmed from the ground up (without the use of any template) also tend to gain Google PR quicker than blogs or other websites I've started using a template-founded system (like WordPress or the like). Perhaps the fact that these original website designs are recognized by Google as being different and thus garner PR momentum more quickly? (That's just my hypothesis.)

    So I am curious what you've found to be the most effective way to get PR ranking and better traffic? Perhaps we can use this thread to brainstorm and share a few ideas on strategies that have worked versus strategies that haven't.
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    Build a better site. Stop looking for easy answers. Learn some HTML. Visit w3school.com once in a while? The list goes on...
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    I'm so sick of hearing the "build a better site" crap. Most of the time, that's NOT the answer. You could have a fantastic site for your industry highlighting everything anyone would want to know about your company and what you sell, and that's still not going to get you to page 1 on Google, if you don't have SEO stuff in place.

    Especially if you're in an industry where there are hundreds or thousands of others also trying to get their website to the top - then just making great content - I'm sorry to say - isn't going to get you there. I wish that was true. But the reality is that you really do need to think about keywords placement on pages, page titles, H1 headings, Sitemaps, backlinks, making each page on your site unique (in terms of title, headings, keywords, and even backlinks).

    You might sell baseball mits and create a wonderful site about all the mits you sell, the history of baseball mits, photos of all sorts of different baseball mits, etc. But if you don't consider things like other key words that people might be searching for (e.g. "baseball gloves") and then don't use those terms on your pages, backlinks, etc. then you're going to be missing the boat big time! It could be the best baseball mit site in the world. But if the word "glove" isn't found somewhere on the site, you're going to be screwed. That's SEO. SEO, to me, is doing some keyword research and considering all of the possible things that a prospective customer might be searching for and then going through your site to make sure those key words are strategically placed on your site.

    I know guys who are Roofing contractors who come up really high for a term like, "Roofing contractor Denver Colorado" but if you do a search for "Roofer Denver Colorado" they don't even come up in the search results at all!!! Even though they have one of the nicest websites of all of the roofers in that area, they forgot to include the word "roofer" in their site. So they're missing the boat. This is what SEO is all about. Making sure that Google bots know to point someone who is searching for a "roofer" or "roofing company" or "roofing repair" to your site, even though you consider yourself a "roofing contractor". SEO is about making sure Google Bot knows can find certain key words on your site so it knows to match people who are searching for that to your site.

    That's also why Google uses backlinks to help it figure out what pages are about. Because maybe you forgot to put words like "baseball gloves" or "roofer" on your site. But maybe one of your clients didn't. Someone with a baseball blog might write a review and say, "I bought my BASEBALL GLOVE from this site." or someone who is writing a blog about their home may say, "I hire this ROOFER to install my new roof." These are cues to GoogleBot that these words should be considered.

    As to your original question, I have found the following to be the most important items, in this order:

    1. Site Age
    2. On Page Keyword Placement (Title, H1, keywords and keyword phrases found a few times in the copy of the page)
    3. Inbound links with anchor text

    And then making sure that Google knows about every page on the site by using Google Analytics and/or making sure you have a good SiteMap that Google can read.

    I know this is so 2009. Everyone's saying now that stuff like social media links, updated content, etc. seem to be the new thing. But for me, I've still seen the best results with just those top 3 things.

    I'd almost reverse #1 and #2 except that I've seen sites that had almost NOTHING in regards to #2 but had a super old page age (like 1999) and they were totally beating out newer pages that had all that stuff in place. And the site itself was crap, compared to the newer pages. In terms of content, looks, everything. The only advantage these sites had was they had a really nice old page age. Seems to be a HUGE advantage. So that's why I place it as #1.

    Comments on this post

    • Savage : Did you even look at that site??? Before you started ranting.
    • KernelPanic : Sorry, you're wrong. You don't know what you're talking about and your massive pontification does not change that
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    Originally Posted by Jimbodini
    I'm so sick of hearing the "build a better site" crap. Most of the time, that's NOT the answer. You could have a fantastic site for your industry highlighting everything anyone would want to know about your company and what you sell, and that's still not going to get you to page 1 on Google, if you don't have SEO stuff in place.

    Especially if you're in an industry where there are hundreds or thousands of others also trying to get their website to the top - then just making great content - I'm sorry to say - isn't going to get you there. I wish that was true. But the reality is that you really do need to think about keywords placement on pages, page titles, H1 headings, Sitemaps, backlinks, making each page on your site unique (in terms of title, headings, keywords, and even backlinks).

    You might sell baseball mits and create a wonderful site about all the mits you sell, the history of baseball mits, photos of all sorts of different baseball mits, etc. But if you don't consider things like other key words that people might be searching for (e.g. "baseball gloves") and then don't use those terms on your pages, backlinks, etc. then you're going to be missing the boat big time! It could be the best baseball mit site in the world. But if the word "glove" isn't found somewhere on the site, you're going to be screwed. That's SEO. SEO, to me, is doing some keyword research and considering all of the possible things that a prospective customer might be searching for and then going through your site to make sure those key words are strategically placed on your site.

    I know guys who are Roofing contractors who come up really high for a term like, "Roofing contractor Denver Colorado" but if you do a search for "Roofer Denver Colorado" they don't even come up in the search results at all!!! Even though they have one of the nicest websites of all of the roofers in that area, they forgot to include the word "roofer" in their site. So they're missing the boat. This is what SEO is all about. Making sure that Google bots know to point someone who is searching for a "roofer" or "roofing company" or "roofing repair" to your site, even though you consider yourself a "roofing contractor". SEO is about making sure Google Bot knows can find certain key words on your site so it knows to match people who are searching for that to your site.

    That's also why Google uses backlinks to help it figure out what pages are about. Because maybe you forgot to put words like "baseball gloves" or "roofer" on your site. But maybe one of your clients didn't. Someone with a baseball blog might write a review and say, "I bought my BASEBALL GLOVE from this site." or someone who is writing a blog about their home may say, "I hire this ROOFER to install my new roof." These are cues to GoogleBot that these words should be considered.

    As to your original question, I have found the following to be the most important items, in this order:

    1. Site Age
    2. On Page Keyword Placement (Title, H1, keywords and keyword phrases found a few times in the copy of the page)
    3. Inbound links with anchor text

    And then making sure that Google knows about every page on the site by using Google Analytics and/or making sure you have a good SiteMap that Google can read.

    I know this is so 2009. Everyone's saying now that stuff like social media links, updated content, etc. seem to be the new thing. But for me, I've still seen the best results with just those top 3 things.

    I'd almost reverse #1 and #2 except that I've seen sites that had almost NOTHING in regards to #2 but had a super old page age (like 1999) and they were totally beating out newer pages that had all that stuff in place. And the site itself was crap, compared to the newer pages. In terms of content, looks, everything. The only advantage these sites had was they had a really nice old page age. Seems to be a HUGE advantage. So that's why I place it as #1.
    I appreciate your your interest to share your knowledge. You are well spoken and passionate... but you are dead wrong on a lot of key points.
    You are correct that keyword research is vital. If you don't do proper keyword research your work will be that much tougher. Good job there.

    The age of a site has nothing to do with where it ranks. A website could go up today and outrank CNN.com tomorrow. This has been discussed for years and there is very little disagreement among real SEOers about this. You have this listed as the most important ranking factor but it is not a factor at all.

    Inbound links are far and away the most important ranking factor. You can rank any website for anything with enough links. You can't rank any site for anything (competitive) without links.

    I would suggest that you could do yourself some good reading the stickies here and gaining a bit of knowledge before presenting your opinions as fact.

    If that seems harsh, sorry. This is a place of learning and your posts, no matter how well they are spoken, could send people down the wrong path.
    Last edited by KernelPanic; Dec 14th, 2011 at 02:48 AM.
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    Jimbodini take in the advice from the Kernel and read the stickies mate, you will learn a lot on here if you take the time to read the right bits and listen to the guys who know what they are talking about.

    I do agree that site age is not a direct ranking factor, but I do feel it CAN help SOME TIMES because with age comes authority (if the site is good and has been well SEOed) so I dont fully agree that age is not important in that respect, but I guess its how its worded that makes that statement right or wrong.

    As for Savage, what was the point in your post? What value has that added to the forum for anyone?

    Comments on this post

    • Savage agrees : Sorry your right. Go read OP's other post on the forum maybe you will understand.
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    I'm sorry. But I did say "I have found...." I was trying to give an opinion based on my experience. My experiences have lead me to these conclusions.

    And page age, IMO, definitely seems to play a HUGE roll. There is this website that is competing against one of the pages on my site for one of the keyword phrases that I am aiming for. My site has everything most SEO experts would advise. All your standard SEO stuff everywhere. Plus lots and lots of backlinks with anchor text from industry specific websites with a wide range of PR values, EDU sites, you name it. This page is well written, visually very nice, lots of good information, everything you would want in a page. And yet after 2 years working on this page I still usually lose out the #1 position to this other site.

    The other site has absolutely nothing going for it. Literally hasn't been updated in 10 years, from the looks of things. It looks like a website you would have seen 10 years ago too. All the old style graphics, odd fonts, graphics and photos are lame. No SEO stuff anywhere. Keyword placement is horrible (except for one or two key words that are repeated a few times only in the copy of the page.) Doesn't have an H1 heading. Title is generic. No meta information. And there are no backlinks at all pointing to this site. I've checked. Nothing.

    The only thing the site has going for it is that it was originated 1-year older than my site (and many years older than this page on my site). That's the only advantage. In every other SEO factor, the page I made kills, hands down. And yet usually this other site is in the #1 position on Google and I am usually in #2. Why would that be, then? If site age wasn't a factor?? There is honestly nothing else to attribute this other sites success to other than page age. As near as I can tell, it's a HUGE factor.

    So that's my experience. No, I don't know any of what I say to be fact. I just know what's worked for me. Over the different pages I have on my site, I'm aiming for 120 different keyword phrases. Of those keyword phrases, I hold the #1 spot on Google for 89 of them. And am on page 1 (top 10) for the remaining 31 terms. That's on Google. On Yahoo/Bing I'm up to 93 #1 positions. So it's not like I don't have some experience and success doing SEO. Granted, I've just done it for my site. I don't do SEO for anyone else but myself. But I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours studying it and applying what I've learned and had some pretty amazing success at it. So it's not like I'm speaking out of my A$$ here.

    Anyway, take my comments for what you will. I'm just sharing what has worked for me. I think great content and having a great site only gets you so far. And the things I listed are what I, personally, attribute all the success I've had with my site. Fortunately, I have a page age of early 2000, which I believe has helped me a great deal to get so many #1 spots.
    Last edited by Jimbodini; Dec 14th, 2011 at 04:00 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Jimbodini
    I have a page age of early 2000, which I believe has helped me a great deal to get so many #1 spots.
    I think you will find your wrong in saying that, its what has been done with the domain in its time, not the age its self that has helped with your rankings.

    Its what you do to build authority that gives you the boost that newer domains dont have yet, not the fact the domain is old. For example if you was to buy xyz.com leave it for 5 years with out ever putting it live, making sure no links point to it etc and then 5 years done the line buy xyz.co.uk and put them both up at the same time, the older domain will have nothing over the newer one because its not built that extra authority or links in the 5 years its been registered.
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    Originally Posted by Jimbodini
    There is this website that is competing against one of the pages on my site for one of the keyword phrases that I am aiming for. My site has everything most SEO experts would advise. All your standard SEO stuff everywhere. Plus lots and lots of backlinks with anchor text from industry specific websites with a wide range of PR values, EDU sites, you name it. This page is well written, visually very nice, lots of good information, everything you would want in a page. And yet after 2 years working on this page I still usually lose out the #1 position to this other site.

    The other site has absolutely nothing going for it. Literally hasn't been updated in 10 years, from the looks of things. It looks like a website you would have seen 10 years ago too. All the old style graphics, odd fonts, graphics and photos are lame. No SEO stuff anywhere. Keyword placement is horrible (except for one or two key words that are repeated a few times only in the copy of the page.) Doesn't have an H1 heading. Title is generic. No meta information. And there are no backlinks at all pointing to this site. I've checked. Nothing.

    The only thing the site has going for it is that it was originated 1-year older than my site (and many years older than this page on my site). That's the only advantage. In every other SEO factor, the page I made kills, hands down. And yet usually this other site is in the #1 position on Google and I am usually in #2. Why would that be, then? If site age wasn't a factor?? There is honestly nothing else to attribute this other sites success to other than page age. As near as I can tell, it's a HUGE factor.

    So that's my experience. No, I don't know any of what I say to be fact. I just know what's worked for me. Over the different pages I have on my site, I'm aiming for 120 different keyword phrases. Of those keyword phrases, I hold the #1 spot on Google for 89 of them. And am on page 1 (top 10) for the remaining 31 terms. That's on Google. On Yahoo/Bing I'm up to 93 #1 positions. So it's not like I don't have some experience and success doing SEO. Granted, I've just done it for my site. I don't do SEO for anyone else but myself. But I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours studying it and applying what I've learned and had some pretty amazing success at it. So it's not like I'm speaking out of my A$$ here.

    Anyway, take my comments for what you will. I'm just sharing what has worked for me. I think great content and having a great site only gets you so far. And the things I listed are what I, personally, attribute all the success I've had with my site. Fortunately, I have a page age of early 2000, which I believe has helped me a great deal to get so many #1 spots.
    holy cow dude, learn to summarize lol

    If you PM me your site, the site that is ranking #1 and its keyword I will tell you why its beating your site.

    It looks like a website you would have seen 10 years ago too.
    A stale look is not a direct ranking factor
    All the old style graphics
    Not a ranking factor
    odd fonts
    Not a ranking factor
    graphics and photos are lame
    Not a ranking factor
    No SEO stuff anywhere.
    wtf is "SEO stuff" lol
    Keyword placement is horrible
    Generally not a ranking factor, certainly not in your case
    Doesn't have an H1 heading.
    IMO is not a ranking factor
    Title is generic
    Is it semantically related?
    No meta information
    Not a ranking factor
    And there are no backlinks at all pointing to this site. I've checked. Nothing.
    How are you checking?

    ...And yet usually this other site is in the #1 position on Google and I am usually in #2. Why would that be, then?
    Because you don't know what you're doing

    As near as I can tell, it's a HUGE factor.
    Accept the fact that you are wrong. This is not debatable. You are screaming "the sky is green!" it's not.

    Remember, I have nothing personal against you, you seem like a cool enough guy and you passion is compelling. If you're ever in my neck of the woods I would be happy sit down to some wings and beer with you to make peace... my treat. But this is a forum read by thousands. You're passing information that is wrong. If someone takes action on this nonsense they will be wasting their time and possibly hurting the cause.
    Last edited by KernelPanic; Dec 14th, 2011 at 06:19 AM.
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    my experience as SEO


    my first day was like I have nothing in my mind nor any idea what will I gonna do ..


    then they start teaching me about seo
    and I was like thingking if ill gonna get bored but I was having fun doing this such activities.
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    I didnt want to read all of this, but I do want to add one thing you guys are over looking regarding domain age.

    In my opinion, I feel the reason WHY domain age gets credit for SERP's rankins is very simple. An older domain has had more time to acquirer links vs. a new site.

    I classify this with PageRank. Having PR will not ensure SERP's; however, most of the ranking sites have PR due to their powerful links, which in return, gives them better ranking.

    So try not to think of it as one or the other. Perhaps your association between your good rankings and domain age is simply the fact that an older domain has more of an advantage to have more links; however, not always being the case obviously.

    I couldn't find a meme picture that summarized this, so you guys win.

    Comments on this post

    • NathanielB agrees : Yup, and thats what I was getting at in my post above :)
    • KernelPanic agrees : An older domain has had more time to acquirer links vs. a new site. duh
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    Originally Posted by joshz
    An older domain has had more time to acquirer links vs. a new site.
    Yup, and thats what I was getting at in my post above, domain age is not a direct ranking factor but if a domain is well SEOed and links are built it will gain that extra bit of authority because its had those extra years to gain it then a new site, so ago can play a small factor in rank if its been in the right hands for those extra years.

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    Originally Posted by NathanielB
    Yup, and thats what I was getting at in my post above, domain age is not a direct ranking factor but if a domain is well SEOed and links are built it will gain that extra bit of authority because its had those extra years to gain it then a new site, so ago can play a small factor in rank if its been in the right hands for those extra years.
    That's stupid.
    LINKS DRIVE RANKS regardless of the age of the site <-- period

    Let's not forget what the genius above me is saying: A site he knows of is ranking FOR NO OTHER REASON other than it is old. That's not correct.
    Last edited by KernelPanic; Dec 14th, 2011 at 10:35 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Savage
    Build a better site. Stop looking for easy answers. Learn some HTML. Visit w3school.com once in a while? The list goes on...
    This is so true
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    In my experience it has been links, links, links that have helped the most. I do think having fresh updated content and a good social media presence can help, but nothing has helped me more than getting good quality backlinks to my site. This is all assuming you have pretty good on-page SEO going as well.
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    Originally Posted by KernelPanic
    That's stupid.
    LINKS DRIVE RANKS regardless of the age of the site <-- period

    Let's not forget what the genius above me is saying: A site he knows of is ranking FOR NO OTHER REASON other than it is old. That's not correct.
    Yes and if you read what I said again you might notice I agree with you, all I said was a site which is old has had more time to gain more links, agreed?

    So if it has had more time to gain more links and so gains more authority, having age on its side has helped in that respect which is what was said, so dont call me stupid for making a logical statement, I dont come up with them often lol
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