Meaningless backlinks to boost rank? Yes you can.

[centralplumbing]

Well despite having a number of good articles on my website and my competitors having nothing.... and despite having meaningful back links from sites that are actually related to my business, I still don't do as well as the top ranking competitors.

After analyzing the top 4's back links what I see is a bunch of Crap links.

They are coming from lame article sites with articles that are clearly not written by somebody that knows the business or even the English language. They are coming from online bookmarking sites where the SEO guy signs up for 10 accounts and then bookmarks the site with different keywords. They are coming from made up pages (ie: a Russian bride site) that has articles about plumbing (if you can call them articles) with key worded links pointing back. They are even coming from the SEO guys SEO website. (again not related to to the business.)

Well despite panda, zebra or what ever else update google is doing, having a bunch of these crap links seems to be working just great for the guys at the top.

I can easily produce a bunch of crap links like this over a few weeks. If I cant beat them should I just join them?

[tstolber]

Nope don't join them! Its only a matter of time before these sites get penalized. You can always point them out to Google anyway.
It does sound strange that this practice is working in your niche but Google will nuke these sites ultimately.
It is frustrating, but there are many people who went the if you can't beat them join them route and are now suffering penalties.

[fathom]

Well despite panda, zebra or what ever else update google is doing, having a bunch of these crap links seems to be working just great for the guys at the top.

If you dropped a $100 bill on the sidewalk and didn't know you dropped it and I at the same time walked by, pulled out my wallet, bent down and as I went to picked up the $100 bill... 100 people came from around the corner and saw me pick it up... would any of them conclude you dropped the bill?

Sometimes 2 + 2 = 4 but many times the true equation is 2 + [Z+ 3 (Y/2 + 4.5) - 1.25] = ? where this ... [Z+ 3 (Y/2 + 4.5) - 1.25] is represented by one of the 2s and if you assume you know the 2 is actually 2 - you would be wrong.

Sometimes you can get away with crappy links (to a point) and other times the crappy links are just a placebo... you see them but they are doing absolutely nothing.

A bit like tracking traffic these days where the 10,024 searches that are (NOT PROVIDED)... what did your rank for to get them?

Being ignorant to the facts does not mean you have any.

[centralplumbing]

I appreciate the 7th grade algebra lesson and the $100 bill story was cute....
I do see that underneath the condescending tone of your post you are trying to make a point.
Two key components of this infinitely complex google equation you are eluding to are "content" and "back links". I have been reading on here that they are pretty important factors on how google ranks your web page, no? So my competitors have no content and crap links but they still rank higher. Why is that exactly Archimedes?

I did a google maps search for plumbers in my city and a Hyatt Hotel popped up. The main point of my post was that google is broken.

[Dr.Marie]

Fathom's math lesson made me laugh. I've read it 4 times now trying to figure it out.

Here's what I think. There are a few possibilities as to why these sites are ranking well with backlink profiles like this.

1. In the midst of thousands of spammy links there could be some really good links in there. The spammy links could be doing nothing, but the good links could be the ones that are holding the site up.

2. They could actually be ranking on the power of those spammy links. I used to proclaim that spammy article links were useless. But since then I've seen many sites that received either unnatural links penalties or were affected by Penguin and these sites, prior to being penalized were ranking phenomenally well on the power of a large number of spammy anchor texted links. *If* this is the case and these sites just recently started to rank well, it's possible that the next Penguin refresh will take care of them. But, I do believe that it is still possible to rank well on the power of spammy links and avoid Penguin if you mix up your anchor text properly. But my personal belief is that Google is going to continue to get better and better at detecting spammy links so that many of these sites will be affected as Penguin evolves.

[eddyf]

I've been in the same situation before - scratching my head wondering why an obviously weaker site (content wise) with nothing but crap links was ranking higher. I waited it out, and Google finally wised up. Like others have advised, don't be tempted to emulate your competitor. Instead continue to build your own site.

Also, achieving top rankings is an obvious SEO goal (and good for the ego). Studies show the drop-off in traffic as you move down in the SERPs. But as an e-commerce owner, I have to wonder how SERPs relates to the number of paying customers. I know that when I'm shopping for a service or product, I check out everyone on the first two pages. It only takes a few seconds, and the best deals are often further down the SERPs. In my own experience, I did not see any difference in $$ sales from being number #12 to my current position at #5. Yes, traffic * conversion rate = sales. But that equation is a simplification - most of my customers don't buy on the first visit. A lot of visitors are window shoppers and the one's who have their credit card in hand do a bit more research. That's why I place more weight in sales conversion efforts than SERPs (as long as you are placing in a reasonable position). Bottom line: I wouldn't put a lot of effort into diagnosing your competitor - he'll self-destruct eventually.

Ed

[atkinssteve028]

Of course do not join them! What they are doing might work for you but how about when this site gets penalized? Do you think you would not be affected, indeed yes! You will be. Remember that focusing on following what the Google algorithm says is the best thing to do. In SEO, it takes time to see results and having no patience is a no no.

[seohuntanalytic]

If I'm not mistaken, Google doesn't like "crapy links" after several last updates, so using them you will only harm yourself. It'll be better to concentrate on laborious process of quality link building and it will bring really good results.

[joshz]

Odds are there is low competition and any link can boost rankings. What are the keywords in question?

[JennifferGrey]

its not true. dont join them. just maintain the content of your site, maybe not now but someday, visitors will comer rushing for they enjoy the quality of your content.

[Alex Coleman]

Hi There,

Yes every one is right here. Ultimately all unethical sites will get penalized. Only what we need to do is keeping patience and stick to white hat working.

One thing is sure that if our site is free from unethical practices and looks like natural, No algorithm can penalized the site.

[fathom]

I appreciate the 7th grade algebra lesson and the $100 bill story was cute....
I do see that underneath the condescending tone of your post you are trying to make a point.
Two key components of this infinitely complex google equation you are eluding to are "content" and "back links". I have been reading on here that they are pretty important factors on how google ranks your web page, no? So my competitors have no content and crap links but they still rank higher. Why is that exactly Archimedes?

I did a google maps search for plumbers in my city and a Hyatt Hotel popped up. The main point of my post was that google is broken.

Amazing how condecending you are to note Google is broken because Hyatt Hotel is included in maps and is likely local to you (nothing wrong with either of those) and the only thing beyond that needed to rank in Places is a flood in the hotel where 23 guests wrote reviews all using plumber or plumbing or the like in their descriptive comments.

You don't understand and no one here can help you with that lack of understanding... everyone will attempt to be nice and everyone will take a wild guess, and some will take a 5 minutes look and guess still guess but in the end only extensive research into your domain will uncover your issues and only extensive research into each competitor domain will uncover their advantages and that costs lots of time that you are not prepared to pay for.

That said... is there a reason you wish to rank for plumber? Doesn't everyone do their own plumbing? Or do you believe they hire a professional to have the job done right?

If you can't fathom SEO enough to do your own research being you should hire a professional because asking for a pile of free unaccountable guesses is the absolute worse way to solve your problem.

[Andrius]

I'd say stay on quality ;) So if you have business you get more potential costumers. Also keep in your mind that google always release new algorithm. If you ranked high because of rubbish links today in the same way you can be punished for that tomorrow. Focus on quality!

[centralplumbing]

Fathom. Looking through your posts you seem to miss the point a lot and use this forum to vent what ever it is your frustrated about. I'm just not going to talk to you anymore.

[fathom]

Fathom. Looking through your posts you seem to miss the point a lot and use this forum to vent what ever it is your frustrated about. I'm just not going to talk to you anymore.

I haven't missed your point...

Well despite having a number of good articles on my website and my competitors having nothing.... and despite having meaningful back links from sites that are actually related to my business, I still don't do as well as the top ranking competitors.

hmmm...

Despite your research - I can prevent you from seeing my "GREAT BACKLINKS" because those come with privileged access to WMT... so when you see only crappy ones you interpret the research data inaccurately. Thus reviewing backlinks provides you inconclusive observations and is an extremely under-productive use of your time.

Suggesting your articles are "GOOD" implies you have lots of naturally developing organic backlinks occurring because others have found your articles useful to them (to their readership)... if they are only useful to you then your observations are again inconclusive and again an extremely under-productive use of your time.

Had you read my posts on these matters you would already know this.

But that said... get better articles will get better backlinks so you are on the right road to success already.

Good luck!