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    keyword - 4 times?


    Hi all,

    The SEOmoz on page report says:

    "Appropriate Keyword Usage in Document

    Text content is very important for modern SEO. In order to optimize your chances of ranking higher for the targeted keyword(s), we recommend using the targeted keyword(s) at least 4 times."
    Suppose my keyword is "bikes Toronto" - it is probably hard to write this 4 times in good English. Another problem is that the targeted page (the homepage) has a minimalist look for design reasons ie the only text is in the footer and the body of the page is just images with zero text.

    My questions please...

    It would be easier for good grammar to write "bikes in Toronto" (eg "if you are looking for bikes in Toronto...") but am I right that that re SEOmoz 4 times means the exact keyword ie "bikes Toronto" and not some variation such as "bikes in Toronto"?

    Is the footer ok for using keywords or not as good as the main body of the page?

    Would it be ok to do the hidden text thing ie add the keywords to the body of the page but matching the background colour ie so that they can be read by the search engines but won't disrupt the page design?

    Thank you...
    Last edited by Juc1; Mar 7th, 2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  3. SEO Consultant
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    You are absolutely correct in that writing bikes toronto 4 times would not be good English and would not flow with your content. Using variations of a keyword is not only OK, but its a good thing. Search engines are very good at understanding contextual relevance nowadays so don't worry about using the ext keyword 4 times. You should use it once, and then iterations there of.

    I am a big fan of SEO Moz, but its on page SEO tool is still just an automated tool, if it can't determine that your keyword variations are really your keyword - don't hurt your page just to please an SEO tool.

    Definitely don't use hidden text, that will cause you problems.

    If it doesn't fit with your page or the flow of your content - don't break something designed for a user to please a search engine, or worse still to please an SEO tool.

    Comments on this post

    • TcxAnthony agrees
    • realityhack agrees : Dead on tstolber
    • terriwells agrees : Excellent advice; I was going to say the same thing about search engines being able to detect keyword variations now, but you got there first. :-)
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    Originally Posted by tstolber
    You are absolutely correct in that writing bikes toronto 4 times would not be good English and would not flow with your content. Using variations of a keyword is not only OK, but its a good thing. Search engines are very good at understanding contextual relevance nowadays so don't worry about using the ext keyword 4 times. You should use it once, and then iterations there of.

    I am a big fan of SEO Moz, but its on page SEO tool is still just an automated tool, if it can't determine that your keyword variations are really your keyword - don't hurt your page just to please an SEO tool.
    OK thanks - I am surprised that the SEOmoz advice (written by humans) is kind of misleading - instead of


    we recommend using the targeted keyword(s) at least 4 times.
    it should say

    we recommend using the targeted keyword(s) (or variations) at least 4 times.
    Originally Posted by tstolber
    Definitely don't use hidden text, that will cause you problems.
    I know that some hidden text eg containing spammy links or keyword stuffing is bad so is hidden text always bad or are there some cases when it is ok? In my case I am talking about using the keyword just once and the reason is to tell the search engines what the page is about while not disrupting the design for humans. This is not meant to be deceptive, so is it still bad?

    Originally Posted by tstolber
    If it doesn't fit with your page or the flow of your content - don't break something designed for a user to please a search engine, or worse still to please an SEO tool.
    OK so in my case should I try to use the keyword 4 times in the footer? This is not ideal but I think that not using the keyword on the page is not an option.

    Thanks...
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  7. justanotherseoguy
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    Even if you have just images on the page, there are still many places you can stick your keywords in. This is just to let Google (or people with browsers that may not display your images) know what your page is about. You could - and should - use your keywords in:

    - the title of the page
    - in the meta description
    - in the alt text tags of the images on the page
    - in image titles
    - in image file names.

    As for different onpage software, most tools provide one-size-fits-all advice, and this is something that's inherent in the software nature, one can hardly do anything about it. But I've found that Website Auditor at least makes it clear what its recommendations are based on (they are based on competitor data), which lets one see where those numbers in recommendations come from.
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    its a useful tip for us.thank you
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    Originally Posted by sparks43
    Even if you have just images on the page, there are still many places you can stick your keywords in. This is just to let Google (or people with browsers that may not display your images) know what your page is about. You could - and should - use your keywords in:

    - the title of the page
    - in the meta description
    - in the alt text tags of the images on the page
    - in image titles
    - in image file names.
    @ sparks43 ok thanks but I was going to do that anyway - above I quoted just one part of the SEOmoz report (saying use the keyword 4 times in the document text) but the report also says use it elsewhere as you have suggested. So my question is how important is the "4 times in the document text" advice in my situation where the only text is in the footer? Maybe if I use the keyword all the other ways as you suggested then using it 4 times in the document text becomes unimportant ie would make no difference to a search ranking. So far I have used the keyword just once in the footer but if I thought it might make a difference to a search ranking then I would use it more than once. I should have said in my original post that the SEOmoz report gives four categories of Critical, High Importance, Moderate Importance and Low Importance and they class "use the keyword 4 times in the document text" as High Importance.

    Thanks...
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    Personally I'm not a fan of SEOMoz but for an absolute beginner it's better than nothing.

    To your issue we ran an experiment last year where we made a site called keyword.com but we didn't include 'keyword' anywhere in the site. After a couple weeks it was ranking at #17 for 'keyword' and very stable there for 3 weeks. We then added 'keyword' in two different places (within the text) on every page on the site. Within 7 days it had risen to #5 for 'keyword'.

    Just tread carefully - '4 times' is all well and good but if your content is text poor 4 times will be spammy. If your page has an 3,000 word article on iot 4 times will get lost in the sea. It's not a case of one size fits all and that's why I grit my teeth when people mention SEOMoz.

    Comments on this post

    • Grizzler agrees : SEOMoz is not as good as people make it out to be
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    Thanks guys for such a useful discussion. I got an idea now thanks once again.

    Comments on this post

    • Test-ok : Why say that, you didn't ask the question, your trying to build post and reputation, and it's not working

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