#16
  1. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Bucharest / Romania
    Posts
    119
    Rep Power
    17
    i got hit by this Jagger-update the same way as other do. My main competitor just vanished from Google index (not even a single page indexed).

    What I want to say is that the whole Google Index it seems to be jaggering ;) as a few hours ago searching by "accommodation in bucharest" I had 4.130.000 results and now I have 670.000 on the main site and 674.000 on www2 and www3. Google is defenitely dancing my brains out as the client went bambooocha when realized that the trafic reduced to half, comparing to previous month.

    I say we should wait a few more days until the Jagger storm passes and then try to find which are the right measures to take. IMHO it's prematurely to decide somethig or to try to test something as the results are not stable.
  2. #17
  3. SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    STL, MO
    Posts
    1,331
    Rep Power
    22
    The SERPs for our main RE related terms have not changed much at all. There is the occasional drop from the SERPs but that usually only lasts for a day or two as things seem to finally be sorting themselves out. Of course I think I am into competitive enough terms that I am stuck dealing with the usual suspects. Real Estate is one of the most competitive areas so a lot of people have engaged heavily in link exchanges. If Jagger did indeed target recip links, it would only make sense that it would shake up the RE related results.
    I love SEO Chat.
  4. #18
  5. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Hero (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    2,350
    Rep Power
    56
    Originally Posted by 2K
    On yahoo!
    linkdomain:www.homegain.com -site:homegain.com

    returns a whooping figure of 307,000. So you are talking with one hell of a backlink love here....
    Unfortunately, those who just want to complain in anger can't be bothered with such trivial things as facts.

    Comments on this post

    • WeRASkitzzo agrees : lol how true... "Never let the facts get in the way of your point"
    • EGOL agrees : right, they are too busy pissing to do any research

    "Live never to be ashamed of what is written about you. Even if what is written is not true" -- Richard Bach

    Yahoo Store SEO
  6. #19
  7. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    15
    Originally Posted by brandall
    Unfortunately, those who just want to complain in anger can't be bothered with such trivial things as facts.
    Again you are not make any sense or any point. You are in denial of the obvious.

    Comments on this post

    • WeRASkitzzo : he's saying that the people who complain arent basing their complaints in the facts.... you might not want to critisize those who have been here longer and are respected in the community
  8. #20
  9. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    15
    The real estate sites that were hit on this update.
    Had a majority of reciprocal links.
    Sites that have 1 way links from a home page were not.
    Since many realtors sites have reciprocal link programs many were knocked out.
    Google is a bit slow in the head. 300 one way links is not spam but 100 reciprocal links is spam. Go figure they should have just devalued them
    not put them back in the box again.

    Comments on this post

    • brandall : G probably did just devalue them. But when the only "value" a site has is devalued, it drops like a rock.
  10. #21
  11. Go OSU Beavers!
    SEO Chat Skiller (1500 - 1999 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,536
    Rep Power
    27
    I can attest the same has happened in "satellite radio". This is my industry, several websites that have been link building were scratched from the SERPs. I've noticed a lot more "naturally" well ranking sites inthe top results, sites like, about.com, howstuffworks.com, amazon.com, cnn.com. Literally the first 1-2 pgs of most top level words are full of these type of pages.

    Comments on this post

    • EGOL agrees : Natural links are extremely valuable.
    • ezhilraja agrees : :wink:
    - Scott Fish, Director of SEO | SEO Blog | Tweet | Linkedin
    Doing SEO for Fortune 500 companies for the last 8 years.
  12. #22
  13. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    15

    You Might Want to Re-Think this One


    I am a realtor and I have 2 real estate sites here in the Southern Utah area that I designed and do the SEO work for. http://www.golfcountryhomes.com and http://www.utah-homes-online.com. Golf Country Homes has owned the market here for about the past year for almost any relevant search and still does.

    I put Utah Homes Online together to test my SEO skills because it is a template site and harder to SEO and I wanted to see if I could match the results from my first site. It is still pretty new and sandboxed by Google but I am getting some very favorable results with MSN and the allin’s at McDars are looking good. MSN (for me) always seems to be a good indicator of how I will do with Yahoo and Google.

    I do alot of link trading (No adult, hate, porn or Viagra etc.) for both sites. I did take a small hit during the last update however it wasn't for my main/targeted keywords. I am still #1 for my target keywords. I did lose a couple of slots for things like just entering just the cities name or a term like “Beautiful Homes”. Was at #3 and now at #8 for those but still getting plenty of traffic and leads.

    I am sure there are lots of you who won't agree but I think that if you do everything you can (White Hat) to move your site up that you eventually reap the rewards. Unfortunately link trading is one of them. I still use meta tags, and try to use my keywords in my text without making it look like keyword stuffing. I still submit to the search engines every Sunday. Lastly you have to have something to offer your visitors so I do as much as I can to make the site user friendly and rich in content. I've heard lots of times that some of the things I do are irrelevant now but I stick to what has worked for me in the past.

    The point is, I don't fit the mold many of you are describing. Check Golf Country out in any of the search engines. I'm still going strong and fully expect to be even stronger following the next update. I always drop back a little during each update and come back even stronger later. No reason for me to believe that this is any different than any other update. The longer the site exists the smaller the drop back each time as well.

    Bottom line is, the person that works the hardest and smartest will make it to the finish line. Not every step is a step forward. Sometimes you need to do a little backtracking as well.

    Check out http://comparesearchengines.dogpile.com. It shows how far off results can be for MSN, Google and Yahoo. End up in the center ring where my site does and you must be doing something right. Just my observation.

    Cheers!

    Comments on this post

    • brandall agrees : Nice post. And nice work. Congrats on the success.
    • 2K agrees : Good post with valid points noted!
    • totalit#051 agrees : Nice post... and nice points of view.
    Last edited by brandall; Oct 25th, 2005 at 12:12 AM. Reason: no live links
  14. #23
  15. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    15
    Google’s most recent update, dubbed “Jagger”, has left many companies who lost their previously high search engine rankings asking, “What happened? Why us?” Since its introduction, Jagger has been wreaking havoc with Google search results across multiple industries.

    (PRWEB) October 24, 2005 -- Google’s most recent update, dubbed “Jagger”, has left many companies who lost their previously high search engine rankings asking, “What happened? Why us?” Since its introduction, Jagger has been wreaking havoc with Google search results across multiple industries. It is critical for companies to understand what this update means for the future of organic search engine marketing, and how to avoid lower rankings and resulting loss of traffic for their own websites.

    Jagger is one of the most significant updates from a major search engine. When asked about Jagger on October 23rd, Matt Cutts, a software engineer for Google, stated, “I wouldn’t be surprised if a second stage of the (Google) index rolls out around this time next week. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a third stage of the index rolls out the week after that.”

    After the first round of this update, thousands of websites that formerly received an abundance of traffic from Google’s search results are no longer ranking. So, what we have seen thus far may just be the beginning of a revision that has left many companies panicking. To get to the bottom of these drastic ranking adjustments, we must first examine how the recent Jagger update has changed the search engine playing field.

    The most discernible changes are the PageRank and backlinks updates. Although these can each have an effect on rankings, they are not out of the ordinary. When asked about the update, Danny Shepherd, senior strategist at Titan SEO http://www.titan-seo.com , a Carlsbad, California, based search engine marketing firm, explained that there is much going on in this update, resulting in considerable ranking changes. Shepherd stated, “Search engines are inevitably evolving, and the great majority of the changes are for the better. Search engines are improving their ability to recognize and punish websites that are spamming. Even more compelling is their ability to take advantage of new technology by improving their ranking algorithms. Google’s Jagger update is certainly one of the most significant updates we have yet seen. These new updates appreciably change the manner in which Google reacts to on-page factors such as text and coding, and to off-page factors such as linking architecture. The update still in it’s early stages, but from what we can see so far, it is not adversely affecting websites that have implemented a high level of sophisticated search engine optimization (SEO). In fact, websites with exceptional SEO are seeing enormous increases in rankings and traffic with this new update.”

    Shepherd also pointed out that the Jagger update brought with it complications with canonical URL errors. Google and other search engines do not like duplicate content, and thus often penalize websites that have the same content on different pages. In some cases, Google spiders are now treating URLs such as “www.domain.com” and “domain.com” as completely unique URLs. Often referred to as a canonical URL problem, a website could be completely dropped from a search engine’s index if this happens. Shepherd advised that a 301 redirect from the “domain.com” URL to the “www.domain.com” URL should fix the problem.

    Google’s Jagger update contains other major changes that are affecting website rankings and resulting traffic across all industries. One of the most noticeable changes involves how Google treats internal linking, including the relationship of backlinks and reciprocal link exchanges between websites. Jagger has severely penalized websites that do not have exemplary link architecture both internally and externally. Titan SEO’s Shepherd explains, “Google and the other major search engines are very particular about the manner in which websites are linked both internally and externally. Done appropriately, proper link architecture can do wonders for search engine rankings. On the other hand, when linking is done incorrectly or too aggressively it can elicit major problems.”

    Google also made it clear that they dislike invisible text. Google’s Matt Cutts was quoted as saying, “I don’t recommend that people use CSS to hide text.” Unscrupulous companies that use invisible text to spam their way to the top of the rankings were hit hard with this recent update. It is clear that Google is taking a stance against spammers and unethical SEO practices.

    So what about the good guys whose websites got slaughtered after Jagger rolled out? The first important thing to remember is that this update is not yet completed. Websites may still have a chance at getting back into the Google index. Shepherd suggests, “Site owners should take a look at their overall long term SEO goals. Bear in mind that search engines often modify and update their ranking algorithms. To stay on top, site owners need top tier professional level knowledge and up-to-date SEO strategies. Since search engines are constantly evolving, it’s imperative to be certain that your strategies are evolving with them.”

    It’s important to keep in mind that search engines have no legal obligation to provide rankings which will result in free website traffic. Search engine companies are businesses whose goal is to increase their revenue through paid advertising and Pay Per Click. While organic search is an extremely important component of a search engine’s value to it’s users, organic search does not pay the bills.

    It may be more than a coincidence that this major update occurred right before the holiday season. It is highly probable that companies who recently lost their rankings and resulting traffic will bite the bullet and invest heavily in Pay Per Click advertising this holiday season in order to make up for their lost organic search engine traffic. This is yet another reason why it is important for companies to stay on top of their organic SEO techniques, and employ a knowledgeable SEO company or team to help weather these recurrent storms.
    .
    Last edited by randfish; Oct 25th, 2005 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Added quote
  16. #24
  17. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Adventurer (500 - 999 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Botosani, Romania
    Posts
    661
    Rep Power
    16
    Here's my point of view about this update and how the new SERPS are affected by the changes:

    - sites that were counting only on reciprocal links (no matter what kind of links, just the more the better) dropped significant in SERPS showing a probable devaulation of the reciprocal links (at least if they're the only/the most source of backlinks for a site)
    - sites that were counting only on reciprocal 3-way links (no matter what kind of links, just the more the better) dropped slightly in SERPS, showing probably a slight devaluation of reciprocal 3-way links.
    - sites that were counting on reciprocal (either 2-way or 3-way) quality links slightly increased in SERPS, showing probably a slighthly higher importance of quality reciprocal links (or most probably of general quality links)
    - sites that were counting on one-way links (the more, the better) reported different results (some reported improvments, while some other reported drops in SERPS).
    - site that were counting on quality, one-way links raised a lot in SERPS, proving that probably this is the key to the next SEO strategies (anyway we all knew that since long time ago, but we are just to lazy to chose the hardest way, isn't it?).

    Sorry if my point of view bothers anyone. I don't have the pretention that it's the "Absolute truth" but it is documented on quite a lot of personal analyzes and statistics on other people points of view.

    Comments on this post

    • Hawaii agrees : Sounds about right, remember the majority of real estate sites are mostly reciprocal, so many are gone.
    Epureanu Bogdan On-line - my personal website
    Total IT Professional - my company website
    Midnight's angel - a website where i help people
  18. #25
  19. No Profile Picture
    SEO Apprentice
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Hattiesburg, MS
    Posts
    267
    Rep Power
    15
    So, question in point. How does a company advertising a product (house or otherwise) gain a lot of natural links? I agree with reciprocals being a problem in the SE's, but I'm still not sure natural links are the best way to rank web sites for some keywords just because of their web environment. I also want to say from looking at my keywords that age of the site is now playing a bigger part in SERPs.
  20. #26
  21. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    15
    Yes, age matters
    But there are some sites just a few that are 6 months old with 20000 blinks and in the top three. How do they get there without getting in the sandbox. Do they know matt??
  22. #27
  23. No Profile Picture
    SEO Apprentice
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Hattiesburg, MS
    Posts
    267
    Rep Power
    15
    Well, after taking another look at things, my sites may just still be in the update period, because I have a lot of google bots coming by and I'm ranking low for even uncompetitive terms. If the positions stand for my real estate sites though, I really will need Matt Cutts to fill me in on what's going on, because I can guarantee even if you did take out my reciprocals, that I still have much better content, one-way links, and on-page-SEO on my site. At least good enough to not be on page 3.
  24. #28
  25. SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    STL, MO
    Posts
    1,331
    Rep Power
    22
    Originally Posted by subnet_rx
    So, question in point. How does a company advertising a product (house or otherwise) gain a lot of natural links? I agree with reciprocals being a problem in the SE's, but I'm still not sure natural links are the best way to rank web sites for some keywords just because of their web environment. I also want to say from looking at my keywords that age of the site is now playing a bigger part in SERPs.
    Um there are TONS of threads and articles out there talking about how to gain links and if you don't think natural links are the best then I have to disagree with you on that. It may not be EASY to get a ton of natural links, but those are most definitely the best ones to have.

    Originally Posted by subnet_rx
    I can guarantee even if you did take out my reciprocals, that I still have much better content, one-way links, and on-page-SEO on my site. At least good enough to not be on page 3.
    Isn't this kind of like all the inmates saying "I'm innocent"? I mean don't we all think that our content is best and our page deserves to rank higher? In the end, its only G's opinion of our site that matters in the SERPs.
  26. #29
  27. KSL Consulting
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    427
    Rep Power
    18
    [QUOTE=scottfish]This is my industry, several websites that have been link building were scratched from the SERPs. QUOTE]

    Question is, what is the right recovery plan from this? I guess I'm asking the impossible, but let's pool some ideas together and see if we can develop a trial strategy. This had a very severe adverse effect on two of my sites. To be honest, they're so invisible in the SERPS, the effect is nearly as bad as being de-listed altogether. Getting out of this hole is going to take a while....

    I'll start by proposing these priorities:-

    Build some more quality "sticky" content on sites that have been hit
    Delete any external links to non-related out of context sites
    Try to gain more one way links
    Last but not least; pray...
  28. #30
  29. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    15
    Don't think any of those will work, how about buying a domain thats not in the sandbox that is a few years old with a pr6. Ha Ha

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 6th, 2005, 09:42 AM
  2. Help! -5 Basic Keyword questions
    By mswilkinson in forum Keyword Research
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Mar 4th, 2005, 07:19 PM

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo