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    I think links from our PR8 site have frozen our clients' SE rankings


    Is it possible that high PR back links can freeze a site in the SERPS...

    We are a web design firm, www leveltendesign com. About April 1 we changed our portfolio format. We used to use JavaScript links to pop-up our clients' websites, then we changed to use standard links. Most of our clients actually have multiple links from our site because we have a top level portfolio page for web design and pages for each sub services such as consulting, copywriting, photography, e-commerce and so on. We also use links to client sites as examples in several other parts of our site.

    We have a pretty good PR and though we would share the wealth with our clients (among other reasons for changing the format). At first it worked great, by the start of May virtually all of our clients had a PR of 6 or higher (Even new sites that had PRs of 0 now were a 5 or 6). However, the new links did not boost their position in the SERPS.

    At first we thought sandbox and waited. However, their are 26 sites in our portfolio, some new, some have been around for years, some have no back links other than from our site, others have a fair number of back links. All experienced no boost in the SERPS to compliment the large boost in PR.

    Now it has been 3.5 months. Our client sites are placing well in Yahoo and MSN (for moderate SEO) have shown no improvement in G, even for keywords with modest competition.

    Example 1. kingwoodpersonnel.com - This is a temp agency in houston that we optimized for "houston temp agency", "houston staffing" and the like. They have several top ten positions in Y and MSN but are no where in G. This site has been around for over 5 years and had ~8 backlinks before we linked to them. As you search on the targeted terms in G, dozens of completly irrelevant pages are ranked above them (we have not found them and stopped looking at 50)

    Example 2. intellinetsystems.com - this is a site we launched in Dec 03. It is not strongly optimized, but every page has some level of optimization using title, meta, and header tags. From Jan to March they had a PR of 3 and recieved about 5-10 targeted search visitors a day. After our portfolio change they now have a PR of 6 yet their rankings have not increased from when they were a PR3.

    Example 3. southwestkia.com - We did a Kia car dealer site (OK its not our best design work but they had no budget). We optimized them on "Dallas Kia". There site has been around for over 3 years, but had only one back link. Now Y and MSN have them as #1 for the term. They are nowhere to be found in G. Our site even pops up at #20 (the portfolio page we have them listed on). Southwestkia.com is indexed in G but it makes no sense why they are not in the top few pages.

    The good thing is our clients don't expect a boost in traffic (most don't even know that we made a change), so they haven't been complaining. But, I want our clients' sites to be successful and traffic will help. Plus this whole thing just has me puzzled. Its like the new links have frozen these sites' placement in G.

    Has anyone else had a similar experience? Anyone have any insight into what is happening and what to do about it?
    Last edited by EGOL; Jul 16th, 2004 at 12:17 AM.
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    If the PR boost is from non related sites the PR bonus might not be helping as much in the SERPS.

    I've had a number of sites link to specific subs of my site. Some help quite a bit and some are of no help at all. I'm thinking it might be a theme issue.
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  5. hctibselgoogtonmai
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    My opinion. I did allinanchor for 1 & 3 and you were 1 & 8 respectively. Hasn't the sandboxxing of links been suggested to be between 3-4 months.

    My guess would be they're in for a big jump if nothing else has changed.
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    EGOL
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    I am seeing this too. A couple months ago I hit a page in light competition with three PR7s on three different sites... two of these only had five other outlinks TOTAL on them. It didn't do a damn thing. A few months ago that page would have blasted through the roof. Either some linkage is taking an awful long time to kick in now, or linking pages that are not closely themed has very little ranking benefit.
    * "It's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain
    * "Free advice isn't worth much. Cheap advice is worth even less." EGOL
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    In my opinion, you have some issues with your Title tag and Alt tags


    In my humble opinion you have some issues with some of your tags that aren't hurting your rankings for "Dallas KIA". But I'm shocked to see you guys in here. Your home site is one of the most well optimized design sites on the internet.

    Drop me a PM if you want to shoot the breeze.
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    It seems to be more than our links not helping as a non-themed back link. (BTW if only themed links help ranking, why get links from dmoz or other general directories?). It is as if our clients' sites are have been frozen. Even when we make on page copy changes, their rankings are not changing.
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    Question


    Could it be that Google is factoring into its algorithm that addition of links from a site with high page rank might be the result of purchasing links and introduce a damping factor for such? Also if this is the site that was duplicated by G W M could this be a factor?

    Shannon
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    It is the site duplicated by GWM. However, GWM contains the old portfolio that used JavaScript links.
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    The sites don't have the right off page factors to rank well (links with keywords). Get more links and I'd guess that the sites will start to rank in google.

    Yahoo favors on page factors higher than google, which is why the sites rank on yahoo but not in google.
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    A new thought


    Three people on the DigitalPoint forum banded together (early April as I remember) to run a test showing the importance of backlinks to a site. Their hypothesis was theme was not important nor did it matter that multiple links came from same site. All the backlinks came from three sources. Someone by name of Alek supplied a page rank 7 link. As I remember it took forever for the link to be picked up. The test is ongoing and can be found at http: //forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread php?t=256&page=1&pp=10 The thread has gotten so long that I can not keep all the nuisances in my mind but what your situation and the situation with their test may have in common is how long it is taking for link from site with high pagerank to kick in.

    Shannon
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    I would agree that "theme" is a complete myth at the moment. I've never seen any proof to support the myth.
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    EGOL
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    Maybe I better leave my PR7s up for a little longer.

    What is GWM?
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    What is GWM?
    Shannon is referring to a site that has stolen our site, greatwhitemarketing.com. There are actually dozens of sites that have stolen graphics and text from ours. I had posted an earlier thread about it. The thread was asking if this duplicate content would harm our seo.
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  27. Big Green Guy!
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    I'll followup up here in addition to at DP, but in response to Shannon's comments, I still think there is some sort of sandbox applied to "interesting" keywords - for instance, from the same www.komar.org page, I added a link to budweiser airboat and that ranks #1 two days later ... but that's not exactly a competive/interesting keyword! ;-)

    It is an interesting theory and would not surprise me if there is some truth to this ... or perhaps a dampening function is applied ... i.e. takes a few months or so for the full "weight" of the PR8 to be applied.

    Shannon: love that picture on your website - typifies the Texas boonies!

    alek

    P.S. On the sleeping bags, I seem to recall there was a jump shorty after the addition of the www.komar.org link ... and upon removal, no changes for sometime, but then a big drop a few weeks later (other things going on, so hard to say what was causing what) - sorry, I'm not going to ready through the whole dang thread yet another time! ;-)
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    Patience is a virtue but not in this situation. Keep adding link after link. Google only puts up people who constantly bombard their website with new links on a weekly if not daily ritual of trading or buying links.

    If you stop adding links......you stay still then go back down.
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