Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  • Jump to page:
    #1
  1. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    443
    Rep Power
    36

    Red face I need help with h1, h2, h3 tags :)


    While I have head tags and meta tags in place on my site, I have not yet added any h1, h2, and h3 tags. I use the Store Editor in my Yahoo store, and was told that I could create these like meta tags and copy and paste them above my head tags within my store editor. Can someone please explain the importance of these to me, and make suggestions as to how many words these tags should be? Also, do you think it's a good idea for me to add them above my header tags? On each page? Any advice and help is greatly appreciated, thanks

    Faith
  2. #2
  3. rod@missionop.com
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens FL 33410
    Posts
    16,980
    Rep Power
    0
    Originally Posted by Faith
    While I have head tags and meta tags in place on my site, I have not yet added any h1, h2, and h3 tags. I use the Store Editor in my Yahoo store, and was told that I could create these like meta tags and copy and paste them above my head tags within my store editor. Can someone please explain the importance of these to me, and make suggestions as to how many words these tags should be? Also, do you think it's a good idea for me to add them above my header tags? On each page? Any advice and help is greatly appreciated, thanks

    Faith
    Title Element e.g <title>Your title here</title> is extremely important

    Page Title e.g. <h1>Your title here</h1> or <h2>Your subtitle here</h2> is pretty important

    Meta Tags e.g. <Meta Name="description" Content="" /> or <Meta Name="keywords" Content="" /> etc. are substantially depreciated to the point that these WILL NOT make any difference if used...

    Therefore I would suggest faithful development of Title Elements & Page Titles and ignore Meta Tags.

    Others will be opinionated to "better safe than sorry" or "every little bit helps" [thus use Meta Tags] but neither of which is overly useful in optimizing for the most obscure limited use terms - thus "what's the point".
  4. #3
  5. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Adventurer (500 - 999 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bartlett, TN
    Posts
    795
    Rep Power
    21
    Originally Posted by fathom
    Others will be opinionated to "better safe than sorry" or "every little bit helps" [thus use Meta Tags] but neither of which is overly useful in optimizing for the most obscure limited use terms - thus "what's the point".
    I do have meta keywords for each page, it is my reminder for my senile brain to recall what keywords/phrases I optimize for.

    Comments on this post

    • DrQuincy agrees : Me too!
    Keyword Meta Questions Answered
    HTAccess Redirects

    Adversity is a spice when added to life makes the dish more interesting.

    A magic marker is a SEO's "Easy Button".
  6. #4
  7. rod@missionop.com
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens FL 33410
    Posts
    16,980
    Rep Power
    0
    Just to clarify... H1, H2, H3 tags go with your page text... they do not belong in the header area.

    Also it is good to re-use your title element info as your Page Title info with an alignment to 'proper grammar' rather than short & concise.

    e.g.

    Title Element -- Dog Bowties, Shirts & Leggens @ Barkleys

    Page Title <H1> -- Featuring Bowties for Large and Small Dogs

    <h2>Shirts for Small Dogs

    <h3>Leggens for Dogs

    Comments on this post

    • EpureanuBogdan agrees : Good advice...
  8. #5
  9. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Hero (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,071
    Rep Power
    260
    Originally Posted by fathom
    ...............................
    Meta Tags e.g. <Meta Name="description" Content="" /> or <Meta Name="keywords" Content="" /> etc. are substantially depreciated to the point that these WILL NOT make any difference if used.................
    Very true that the Meta Description has no optimization value, but it most certainly has "Marketing" value. Google will use a carefully crafted description which will beat the heck out of snippets picked from the page followed by the ...'s.

    To boot, I do believe in the "every little bit helps, and better to be safe than sorry" theory, so I do the description tags carefully for the marketing value as well as "just in case" value!

    raz
    #include <Cognac.h> -The only code I know How to Write!
  10. #6
  11. rod@missionop.com
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens FL 33410
    Posts
    16,980
    Rep Power
    0
    Originally Posted by raz
    To boot, I do believe in the "every little bit helps, and better to be safe than sorry" theory, so I do the description tags carefully for the marketing value as well as "just in case" value!

    raz
    Here is how I read that:

    1. I'd rather spend time doing something that 'might help' instead of using that time to do things that "will help".

    2. "Just is case"... I'm not as good of an optimizer as I think I am - I'll do it because - well it doesn't hurt my website and well my time is worthless..

    3. A hidden tag offers more value to searchers than the real text on my page???? Go figure!

    4. "When was the last time you didn't use Meta? .. to satisfy that you are not merely wasting time.

    http://forums.seochat.com/google-optimization-7/meta-tags-13117.html

    To note here:

    Meta Tags July 15th, 2004, 03:58 AM

    Originally Posted by raz'
    I keep reading in these pages that Meta tags are not important for Google optimization.

    Here is the result of a test that wasn't even meant to be a test.

    I built a secondary information site in a question and answer form to support my site. This is a very simple five-page site, pure HTML not a pixel of graphics. Pages are not optimized; they are Q and A on the main subject of my main site.

    Some two months ago I changed the Meta tags.

    Title is now < information and definition of keyword phrase >

    Meta Keywords < information, definition keyword phrase >

    In a search for "definition of keyphrase" the site shows up in positions 1 and 55, page three of the site is positions 2 and 56!

    The word DEFENITION is nowhere in the text of the site!

    The only conclusion is: Google pays attention to Meta tags! A lot of sites show up high in Google SERPs that donít use Meta tags but that only goes to show that Google pays attention to everything!
    What I get for this is:

    1. 2 1/2 year ago you made observations where numerous major shifts have occurred since then.

    2. Observations were made on the weakest of phrases which partial phrase matching can be the overall influence for ranks and the Meta offers a single unique & obscure term not used by others to allow a ranked result.

    3. The fact that your phrase was only in the Meta [and it ranked and was used as the description of the page] BUT had the Meta been removed and text placed on the page "as is" the likelihood the same results would have occurred - thus without reverse engineering as text for comparison your observations are likely in error due to an omission.

    4. The simple fact that everyone uses Metas to curb descriptions for the best phrase matches [competitive matches] and not "obscure phrases" suggests this...

    A worthless exercise!

    If you are going to use Meta - use it for words you do not want to have in your visible text e.g. common typos since the Meta will not appear unless the typo is used and the click is met with proper English for "marketing value".

    Using Meta to force something you will have anyway [with proper site design & organization] is underproductive... PLUS my observations of websites using Meta - they are a carbon copied across all pages to do what [SAVE TIME} which 1) is a marketing waste or 2) if you do develop uniquely per page takes enormous amount of time to do properly for such a limited return.

    If you wish to use Meta that is fine but it is academically and in practice bad advice to suggest to others.

    Any SEO that offers advice based on "I do", "every little bit helps" or "just in case"... is wasting the time of the uneducated.

    If someone has acquired every plausible link and developed content for every plausible topical angle and organized that content in a sound hierarchy [and gotten more deeplinks to these pages] - well ok Meta Tag are a plausible next step... but I doubt anyone will ever get that far.

    Comments on this post

    • GaryTheScubaGuy agrees : This is why I respect Fathom...he doesn't mess around and he actually means well (however insulting he is) Can we get some dna to clone you?
    • EpureanuBogdan agrees : Definetly a good lesson - "don't waste your time". Thank you, Fathom!
    Last edited by fathom; Feb 25th, 2007 at 02:50 PM.
  12. #7
  13. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Hero (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,071
    Rep Power
    260
    fathom, You just send me back to square one... Thanks for taking the time for the long analysis!
    (Scratching head and wondering and thinking... Need a shot of cognac!)

    raz
    Last edited by raz; Feb 25th, 2007 at 03:53 PM.
  14. #8
  15. rod@missionop.com
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens FL 33410
    Posts
    16,980
    Rep Power
    0
    Originally Posted by raz
    fathom, You just send me back to square one... Thanks for taking the time for the long anlalysis!
    (Scratching head and wondering and thinking...)

    raz
    Not really... it's a learned process (just like everything else).

    If you get to see it from practicing both methods of optimization [with & without Meta] and both methods of marketing value [with & without Meta] you can be "informed" of added-value or time wasted.

    The best resource to see this in action is a blog... where the content of the main page changes often and dramatically.

    Many will say "I need the control of Meta" but you can do a far better job without them... if you actually try.
  16. #9
  17. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Hero (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,071
    Rep Power
    260
    I think what gets in the way of arguing for the two approaches is the fact that I build relatively small sites, which I build on consistently with content pages (not less than 350 words). In this approach, since I've spent time writing or going over a ghostwriter's work, adding a meta description takes no more than a minute or two. But I suspect if someone is building product pages that can number in thousands then the time spent writing meta descriptions could turn into a major task.

    raz
  18. #10
  19. No Profile Picture
    Noj
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,280
    Rep Power
    199
    LOL this one does really gets your goat doesn't it.

    but I'm going to agree to differ for the following reasons,

    1)We have probably spent longer arguing about it than it the time it takes to implement on a website.

    2) Its good web design practice

    3) For control freaks like me its allows me to control the display text on my ranking display, and I happen to think I do a better job of writing it in the description than naywhere else.

    4) Good unique Meta keywords and description are one of the ways to keep pages out of supplemental results.

    Will it help my rankings, in most cases probably not, will it effect my traffic? I think it should.

    I will wait for the expolsion now.


    If you wish to use Meta that is fine but it is academically and in practice bad advice to suggest to others.

    Any SEO that offers advice based on "I do", "every little bit helps" or "just in case"... is wasting the time of the uneducated.

    If someone has acquired every plausible link and developed content for every plausible topical angle and organized that content in a sound hierarchy [and gotten more deeplinks to these pages] - well ok Meta Tag are a plausible next step... but I doubt anyone will ever get that far.
  20. #11
  21. rod@missionop.com
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens FL 33410
    Posts
    16,980
    Rep Power
    0
    Originally Posted by Noj
    LOL this one does really gets your goat doesn't it.

    but I'm going to agree to differ for the following reasons,

    1)We have probably spent longer arguing about it than it the time it takes to implement on a website.

    2) Its good web design practice

    3) For control freaks like me its allows me to control the display text on my ranking display, and I happen to think I do a better job of writing it in the description than naywhere else.

    4) Good unique Meta keywords and description are one of the ways to keep pages out of supplemental results.

    Will it help my rankings, in most cases probably not, will it effect my traffic? I think it should.

    I will wait for the expolsion now.
    Most of what you say is an illusion... it's a preceived good design practice but not backed by any real marketing research, you don't get better control, and as for supplemental results "why" does a hidden phrase help prevent supplemental results where the visible page can [presumably you're saying the visual page] is the problem and a hidden Meta is the solution??? HUH? Does that actually make sense [Real content is the bloody problem]?

    Here's some better control, good design stuff that also help visitors be more productive:
    1. Use right navs vs. left nav
    a. right usage prevents nav from being the first contextual use of primary phrases

    b. 90% of all pointer devices sit close to the right side scroll bar and as such eyeballs tend to be right-of-center focus thus right nav buttons in close proximity allow visitors to navigate more efficiently.
    2. Head navs [if CSS] move code below left side body and right side nav
    a. coded below prevents nav from also being the first contextual use of primary phrases

    b. now that your body text is absolutely the first text on page - you have full pages of text that act as your Meta

    c. Sorry to say if you are unhappy with you body text representing you in search engines - surely that same text sucks once you have a visitor [or not]
    3. Do #1 & #2 and you'll also gain many more "indented listings" that you rarely get from your Meta control.
    I would much rather have 2 shots at a click rather than one, noting that "real text snippets" handle text variation far better than Meta e.g. plurals, stemming, etc. I'll reiterate that focusing Meta on obscurity phrase - is not a bad option... but as previous - rarely will anyone focus a Meta on an obscure use... it's human nature to plug your best overall phrases.

    Comments on this post

    • GaryTheScubaGuy agrees : see what I mean?
    Last edited by fathom; Feb 25th, 2007 at 05:31 PM.
  22. #12
  23. B afraid.. B very afraid!
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Land of enchantment... deserts of the Southwest
    Posts
    9,694
    Rep Power
    2390
    Let's reset here and have some food for thought. The posters above are talking way over most everyone's heads. They are pro SEOs that have handled multiple sites into the many thousands of pages.

    Here we sit... you and me... with our one very important site with about 50 pages or so. We can spend the time to optimize our description METAs. In fact we should if it will give us one or more additional clicks. Maybe the SEO pros above will realize that you and I only have one site. What should we do? What if we have nothing but time during the evening to really tweak our ONE site?

    The above is to remind everyone on this board that our average SEO Chat visitor is just trying to find out how they can improve the resuts of their ONE site.
    ...Never mistake activity for achievement...

    ...Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it....
    Benjamin Franklin
  24. #13
  25. SEO Insultant
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sharing a room with my ego
    Posts
    6,427
    Rep Power
    3292
    Originally Posted by fathom
    Just to clarify... H1, H2, H3 tags go with your page text... they do not belong in the header area.

    Also it is good to re-use your title element info as your Page Title info with an alignment to 'proper grammar' rather than short & concise.

    e.g.

    Title Element -- Dog Bowties, Shirts & Leggens @ Barkleys

    Page Title <H1> -- Featuring Bowties for Large and Small Dogs

    <h2>Shirts for Small Dogs

    <h3>Leggens for Dogs
    Well, this advice is just about spot on. Really, as far as on-page optimisation goes, apart from the <title> element there is probably no better way to emphasise keywords and keyphrases than the h1..h6 header elements.
    ... Hey you! FREE SEO report card ... I really my hosting company ...
  26. #14
  27. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    443
    Rep Power
    36

    It 's Faith again :)


    Hi,
    It's Faith again, thanks so much for all of the advice, even if a lot of it was over my head! (LOL) I have separate meta tags for most of my pages, as well as keywords. (I do only have one website which I'm working on now). My question is, where can I put the h1, h2, and h3 tags in my store editor, if not in the section with my meta tags? Can I place them by my title, or any section where I can put html? Please excuse my lack of knowledge here, and thanks so much for your help!

    Faith

    Comments on this post

    • SEO_AM agrees : Just go steady on your ONE site. Have patience and experiment.
  28. #15
  29. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Adventurer (500 - 999 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bartlett, TN
    Posts
    795
    Rep Power
    21
    I am sure mine has problems but here is an example of my H1 placement.

    Code:
    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
    <title>2007 Military Pay Charts</title>
    	<meta name="robots" content="index, follow">
    	<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOODP">
    	<meta http-equiv="revisit-after" content="14 days">
    	<meta name="netinsert" content="0.0.1.12.13.1">
    	<META name="keywords" content="2007 military pay chart,2007 enlisted pay,officer pay 2007,active paychart,reserve paychart,
    	national guard pay,drill pay rates,warrant officer pay rates,basic enlisted pay rates,basic officer pay rates">
    	<META name="description" content="Navy information and military pay chart 2007.">
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="navycs3.css" type="text/css">
    </head>
    <body><center>
    <table width="800" class="maintable">
      <tr>
        <td><table width="800"  border="0" cellspacing="0">
      <tr>
        <td class="topgif" width="800"><img src="images/navycssmain.jpg" alt="Military Paychart 2007" height="183"></td>
        
      </tr>
      <tr>
        <td>
    	<div class="globalNav"> 
          <a href="index.html" title="NavyCS CounterStrike">Home</a>
        	| <a href="gallery2/" title="NavyCS Media Gallery">
    		Gallery</a>
    		| <a href="phpbb2/" title="NavyCS Forum">Community</a> 
    		| <a href="http://69.65.31.5:27015/" title="NavyCS Deep Six Monitor">
    		WebMod</a>
    		| <a href="blogs/index.php" title="NavyCS Blog">Blog</a>
    		| <a href="topsites/index.php" title="Join the NavyCS Community">
    		Submit Site</a> 
    		| <a href="sitemap.html" title="NavyCS Site Map">Site Map</a>
    	
    </div>
    	</td>
      </tr>
    </table>
    
    <h1>2007 Military Pay Charts</h1>
    
    <div class="pay"><center><h4>                
                      The pay tables below reflect the 2.2% pay raise for 2007. Pay 
    					raise effective on January 1, 2007. &nbsp;Some enlisted and 
    					warrant officers would get a second targeted pay raise 
    					effective April 1, 2007 which could provide a total 2007 pay 
    					raise of 4.6%. <br>
                  <strong>Note:</strong> The amounts are rounded to the nearest 
    					dollar.</h4>
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  • Jump to page:

Similar Threads

  1. Dynamic meta tags
    By Ashley in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Jul 1st, 2010, 04:54 AM
  2. H1, b, strong, alt tags, and title tags
    By chrisrobertson in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Aug 10th, 2006, 06:50 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jun 28th, 2006, 12:24 PM
  4. Strategies for Tags
    By Darrenbrett in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Oct 18th, 2005, 09:52 PM
  5. meta keywords/description tags and google
    By relaxzoolander in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: May 6th, 2004, 04:31 AM

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo