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    Theory on the Google Update


    This last update for our keyword base basically "added" back all of the keywords that we lost. I am still with the idea that most of the people that are coming back....are back now. I think there will be more information rolled into the index, but the major part of it is over.
    I also noticed a considerable shift in my results...currently number 4 under my main keyterm and down to 7th on some. I think the reasons are my attempts at de-op, the first site for most of the keywords is spammier than ever.

    I think we are looking at a old Florida index with a huge update, I also believe that this was all done on a time line.

    If you were ranked 6-8 months before Florida, you were updated in the Florida update, and if not ranked then your site was gone or where it was 6-8 months pre-Florida.
    If you were there 6-8 months before Austin you were updated in Austin and if not ranked then you again, were gone or where you were prior.
    Same exact thing for Brandy.

    Our specific site was indexed the first time in August and went to number 1 in September, so we were on the tail end of the update.

    If your site was in Google previous to Florida, it is only a matter of time before the site is rolled back into Google. I think the Filter theory was a correct theory ONLY in the fact that Google wanted to reduce the amount of propagated information during a specific time period.
    NO amount of SEO would have brought the afflicted sites back, you basically just had to wait your turn.

    Think about it, most people are saying that they saw little "updated" in their specific strings of results, probably because the sites with very light amounts of additions or no additions would cause the index to look the same for that time period. Brandy was just the last 6 months or so of sites returning or going back to their original positions.

    My thoughts on this whole thing...I think these results are here to stay.
    Last edited by Tiffany*; Feb 20th, 2004 at 08:50 AM.
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  3. Sick of BL's, PR + Google
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    I had a site that was #1, #2, and top tens for most of our keywords for 1 year before Florida.
    Florida we lost our main kws and brandy we lost the rest apart from one that dropped to 21 and one at 136 the rest are 9999+

    What applies to one person does not apply to everyone as has been stated by lots of others. I think everyone has to examine their own circumstances.
    Last edited by thewormman; Apr 14th, 2004 at 01:31 PM.
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    Originally Posted by thewormman
    I had a site that was #1, #2, and top tens for most of our keywords for 1 year before Florida.
    Florida we lost our main kws and brandy we lost the rest apart from one that dropped to 21 and one at 136 the rest are 9999+

    What applies to one person does not apply to everyone as has been stated by lots of others. I think everyone has to examine their own circumstances.

    I am saying that 6-8 months prior would be a starting point.....Have you de-optimized your website? I think many people panicked and changed the things that made their site on top in the first place. Many people dropped links, changed link text and a million other things.

    I am just offering my opinion =)
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    I would love to hear from other webmasters that left the basics alone and did a small amount of tweaking and were fairing well before Florida =)
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    Our main site was sitting at position 23 for the main keyword phrase. Post Florida we were nowhere to be found.

    Mid December I reduced the keyword density ONLY and we returned to the 700's.

    Post Austin we were up to around position 38 in the regular serps.

    Today, in the regular serps, we are at position 178. In the 64.xxx.xxx.xx we are at position 38.

    For us, 64.xxx.... results are not being reflected in any of the other datacenters.

    Again, all I did was to reduce keyword density. We do a have a few added backlinks but no other major changes.
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    Originally Posted by thewormman
    I had a site that was #1, #2, and top tens for most of our keywords for 1 year before Florida.
    Originally Posted by Tiffany*
    I would love to hear from other webmasters that left the basics alone and did a small amount of tweaking and were fairing well before Florida =)
    Hi Tiffany

    Between Pre-Florida and now I did not touch my site at all,
    I prefered to wait and see what would happen since some people were coming back without doing anything. This obviously didn't work!

    I am now starting to change things gradually and analysing the results.

    Luckily I do not have to rely on my income from my websites, I learnt a long time ago that to survive in business one has to have 2 or 3 totally unrelated incomes so that your income is not controlled by outside influences that are out of your control.
    Last edited by thewormman; Apr 21st, 2004 at 07:03 AM.
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    Site A - #1 Pre-Florida. Dropped out in Florida. Reduced kw density, changed title, removed a few links, basically de-optimized.

    Site B - #2 Pre-Florida. Dropped out in Florida. Changed nothing.

    Post-Brandy:
    Site A - #1
    Site B - #2

    Conclusion: Make changes and return. Don't make changes and return. At least that's my experience.
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    Originally Posted by Tiffany*
    I would love to hear from other webmasters that left the basics alone and did a small amount of tweaking and were fairing well before Florida =)
    I kept with my original pre-Florida sites and they returned better than ever in the Brandy update. They took a beating with Austin and Florida. In mid December I said to heck with Google and proceeded as I always did with my original sites. Most of what I am doing is counter to all the very good suggestions I read in forums.

    I basically agree with PK that most of the theories couldn't be proved one way or the other. But I don't discount any of the theories because some can give you a boost.

    Things can change in a minute with any of these search engines. A gain in Google one day and then a loss of traffic from Yahoo the next.

    I don't belive things are really going to settle down until MSN plays its cards and Yahoo introduces its PFI. The new Yahoo PFI will probably break in a day when people flood it.
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    Originally Posted by thewormman
    Hi Tiffany

    Between Pre-Florida and now I did not touch my site at all,
    I prefered to wait and see what would happen since some people were coming back without doing anything. This obviously didn't work!

    I am now starting to change things gradually and analysing the results.

    Luckily I do not have to rely on my income from my websites, I learnt a long time ago that to survive in business one has to have 2 or 3 totally unrelated incomes so that your income is not controlled by outside influences that are out of your control.
    Curious, are you listed in DMOZ ?

    Were the sites ranked high for many keywords before Florida?
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    Originally Posted by dazzlindonna
    Make changes and return. Don't make changes and return.
    Bingo.

    I have enough sites turned upside down and rightside up by Florida, Austin, and Brandy, that I can just about prove and disprove EVERY theory out there.

    I have two sites that have not yet returned. The only thing they have in common (that none of the returned sites share) is a lack of quality external links.

    So my theory, for those two sites, is that I need to build up external links.

    However, I have no theory for the remaining sites on the web.
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    Originally Posted by dazzlindonna
    Conclusion: Make changes and return. Don't make changes and return.
    Yes.
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  23. Sick of BL's, PR + Google
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    Originally Posted by outland88
    Curious, are you listed in DMOZ ?

    Were the sites ranked high for many keywords before Florida?
    Hi outland

    Yep site listed in dmoz which has not shown as a google backlink for 2 months but still there, listed in google directory.
    Other backlinks are quite low PR but before the first google shuffle my site held ranks of
    kw1:#1+#2,
    kw2:#2
    kw3:#2
    kw4:#6
    kw5:#9 etc,etc

    After latest shuffle
    kw1:#136
    kw2:MIA
    kw3:MIA
    kw4:#600+
    kw5:#21
    Last edited by thewormman; Apr 21st, 2004 at 07:02 AM.
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    from what we see ... brandy is clearly just a "rollback" of the penalty filters ... whatever they were, they were pulled back some ....

    so that easily explains why some sites thet were "close to the line" came back in with nothing done ....

    also .... we are in several categories so we see that the penalties are "relative" .... if a category is HIGH SPAM .... then maybe you can get away with more since that is more common .... etc ..... so this makes compairsons of results less reqarding unless you are in the same group .... ALSO ... and this is the biggest point i think many people are totally missing .... if the filters are RELATIVE to the environment there ..... YOU CAN BE AFFECTED by what the other sites in your category do .... so mabe you did NOTHING ... but many others in your category made changes .... so what is "relative" changed .... that would also explain the otherwise incongruent results ..... maybe you appeared ... dropped again ... then reappeared ... and you did nothing ...

    but the fact remains, they still have penalty filters in place .... and these are NOT }pre-florida results" ....
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    I agree with JoeBob that these results are not pre-Florida. I believe that we are, however, seeing pre-Florida filters. The Florida-Austin filters were filtering so much that they began filtering too much. All that was able to float to the top was crap (pardon the expression :-)) After Brandy, and with the lightened filters, many sites are able to return to where they used to be.
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    Originally Posted by JoeBob
    .. if the filters are RELATIVE to the environment there ..... YOU CAN BE AFFECTED by what the other sites in your category do .... so mabe you did NOTHING ... but many others in your category made changes .... so what is "relative" changed .... that would also explain the otherwise incongruent results ..... maybe you appeared ... dropped again ... then reappeared ... and you did nothing ....
    That's a very interesting concept that could make an algo very difficult to pinpoint. Mathematically it is very doable using IF ...THEN statements.

    IF x <= 3 THEN algo (A)
    IF x <= 6 THEN algo (B)
    IF x <= 9 THEN algo (C)
    IF x => 10 THEN algo (POOF!)

    Depending on the value of the variable x any one of a number of algos could be implemented. Good luck trying to figure out that scenario.

    Nice post, JoeBob.
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