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  1. Contributing User
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    Here we've gone again


    We have disapeared again......done nothing different only improved text and two more pages........anyone else?
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    Gone how so? I have a site that was ranking in the top 10 for several competitive keywords that dropped out of the top 100.
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    Thumbs down I'm gone too!


    I've been number one for most of my keyword phrases for the last two months. Now I'm on the second page for one main term and my blog posts are ranking higher than anoterh major page term. I'm hoping in three days I'll wake up and this will all be a bad dream.

    The sad part is the results Google is now providing a lousey in terms of their relevancy.

    Come on Google guys, if you are making improvements to your Algorithms at least return more relevant results not crappy ones.

    Europa

    Originally Posted by straitsex
    We have disapeared again......done nothing different only improved text and two more pages........anyone else?
    Last edited by europa; May 21st, 2005 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Mispelling
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    Strait, a number of people here (but mostly on WMW) are seeing an update happening over the last few days. A lot of people, however, see no changes at all. Apparently, something is going on, but it hasn't yet affected a broad range of terms. Here's my guess. As each new update happens, another segment is affected. September affected segment A, December affected segment B, February affected segment C, March affected segment D, and May is affecting segment E. I don't know what the criteria is for which segments are chosen, but the same outcome is happening to a select group of sites each time, but the groups are different. My next guess is that Google is unable or unwilling to apply the update to the entire index, so it is doing it piecemeal every 45-55 days or so. Each time it happens, a group of people feel the heat, while a large group does not. Eventually, over the next few months, everyone (nearly) will have gone through the fire.

    Added: one of my sites felt the heat in December. one felt it in February. The december site rebounded (but not completely) in February. The february site is still lost in outer space.

    Comments on this post

    • Wit agrees : Oh yeah...
    • dougedoug agrees : This could be the case, but with the number of new pages who knows
    • EGOL agrees : This is true!
    Last edited by dazzlindonna; May 21st, 2005 at 11:04 AM.
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    Well it's all very well having these theories but I wonder if G knows how much they are despised each time they do this.....they say it's because of regular up-dates but is it right to go to nowhere each couple of months and then come back in another month only to do it again! we have done next to nothing to alter the site and as far as we know we are not doing anything outside the rules....with the other engines we stay where we are plus or minus a couple of places.....we are so p....sed off this time I won't bother to complain.
    Last edited by SEO_AM; May 22nd, 2005 at 07:30 AM. Reason: Quote not required.
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  11. Domain Hatcher
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    Google has never told you or I the rules we must play by. Google gives no guarantees to the free SERP position. By constantly tweaking their algorithm they insure that Adwords will remain the most profitable asset of Google Inc.

    The only ones who complain are those who are trying to make a living by organic search.

    Free Bloggers donít complain. Education sites donít complain. Its just people like us who need the free search, in order not to pay for advertisement.

    D
    Last edited by SEO_AM; May 22nd, 2005 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Quote not required.
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    This is a general statement and not intended for anyone it particular: It's also important to remember that IT (the google algo) will always change. Those that sit on their hands will drop, those that continue to acquire links, add meaningful relevant content, and do the many other things discussed here every day, will stay on top. If your dropping then most likely, your competion is working harder than you are.

    1.) Curse the big nasty G!

    2.) Don't panic! Let the update (if thats what's really happening) fully propogate before making any "drastic" changes.

    3.) Curse the big nasty G!

    4.) If, at the end of the update, you got whacked... Don't Panic! Take a deep breath and jump into the numbers. Who took you position? What's different about the sites that hold the top 10 vs your site that is now at #450?

    5.) After careful consideration start implimenting your changes. I recommend a gradual pace IE: don't rewrite your entire site in one day. (others may dissagree)

    6.) Curse the big nasty G!

    7.) Track the changes made. Did it affect your SERP's? How long did it take for the changes to take effect? You get the idea.

    8.) Curse the big nasty G!

    9.) Don't give up!

    This what has kept me for going completely insane over the last 2 years.

    Comments on this post

    • bigdoug agrees : 1,3,6,8 I have done that before
    • EGOL agrees : I agree with all of these except cursing G.
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    Oh yeah... one more thing. Drink heavly at the end of every work day. ;)
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    What the heck!

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bigdoug again.
    Can't you guys give us a "no credit" reputation button so we can at least post the comment. I understand we can't give out the credit but maybe you could highlight the comment in red and then just not boost the actual rep of the individual we agree with.

    That's it, vBulletin is going on my nasty list until they make a personal apology to bigdoug for not giving him rightly deserved kudos on his "perspective" based approach.

    Comments on this post

    • bigdoug agrees : I have some rep left for you....hehe
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    Talking Purgatory Segment


    My site is still in the purgatory segment. But at least it is out of the sandbox. For what that is worth. The index my site is in is maybe flashed before the eyes of Google users once a week for maybe 10 min. I must be in the VERY VERY bottom index. Oh, well...Another member named this the purgatory index. These are Dantean rings in the Google inferno. I am on the bottom rung just one step out of the sandbox. No idea who long the site will be in this index. All white hat optimization. I think the Google guys recently read the Inferno and thought:"Wow, what a great way to hold sites back. I forget how many rings there are in Dante's Inferno, but probably that is how many indices Google now has.
  20. #11
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    OK, I have to disagree with this Donna, especially considering its the talk at wmw.... . Some of my own observation...lol...ok..have to include my fluff to...as you know it's always "outside the box", so I could be wrong..but I don't think so..lol

    Addressing specifically "shifts from the top ten", I personally believe what we're seeing is a combination of factors. The first is the loss of back link credit spreading as Google identifies and "de-indexes" link partner pages. This is a pattern I am seeing repeated over and over as I have researched back links and link partners. (hi all, I have been off working hard and fixing to head back to it ) It would explain why one may drop from lets say position 4 to position 19 if you lose a few criticle "choice" aged links as back links are updated. One loses age and gets just the newbies you were out gathering. Not a good trade off with Google.

    I am of the personal mind set that it takes G a couple months to identify and filter out "duplicate" stuff. They always seem to catch me and it always seem to take a couple months...lmbo! Curse Them! Anyyyyyyway.. I believe part of the trouble is webmasters are not creating "Unique" descriptions for each link partner site. They're doing the "Copy Paste" routine creating hundreds of links with the SAME descriptions. Where do these pages go? Don't know. "Similar" status? If one thinks about it, outside of computation resources, shouldn't be to hard for big G to take the first "X" amount of text that follows a link and compare it to other links for the same site. Get enought duplicate stuff from a single trace page and poof, you got yourself a link page full of duplicate content. Bye Bye Link ;) Considering I believe Google is flat out at war with SEO, we are going to have to, in my opinions, become more focused on writing unique descriptions for EACH link we create in addition to writing your own descriptions for partner sites instead of allowing your link partners to use "Cookie Cutter" crap. This will help to defeat efforts by Google to identify what it considers a "un-natural" vote. The key is to make sure who you're linking with does this. Otherwise, IMHO, the lack of taking charge will catch up to those link partner pages, regardless of what you call them.

    If you're seeing your link partner pages de-indexed, I highly recommend you take a couple days and create UNIQUE descriptions for your link partners as I think these de-indexed pages can have an impact, if only slite for some, on a sites ability to rank and most certainly offer no benefit to your link partners themselves. I pull links off when I see this, as do other I'm sure, and that directly hurts your sites ability to rank even more.

    I am definitely seeing where content links are becoming more and more valuable from quality content pages. I may just have to start selling them. ;)

    The second thing I am seeing is webmasters failure to pay attention to warning signs of impending trouble given by Google. I am seeing site after site having primary content pages de-indexed right along with those disappearing link partner pages. These pages have insufficient unique content to rate indexing. As a percentage of your sites total pages, I believe this will have an impact on a sites capability to rank. This also adds even more emphasis on the "content is King" pinciple, though, again, I believe "Links are King" and "content is Queen". However, I am NOT going into this debate. We will agree you need both and drive on...lol

    Any who, this is something I am seeing quite a bit of, and obviously sites are not addressing these serious content issues. For example, I believe if your site has 100 pages and 75 true content pages (not the fluff - contact page, privacy policy, TOS etc but real topical meat) and only 30 of those pages are indexed and the remainder are relegated to similar status or not in the index, you have a serious 70% page deficit of what is considered "Similar" by google - a nasty reference in my opinion.

    This give you something to think about when you start seeing a few of your content pages on the way out of the Google index. The more you have gone, as a percentage of your sites total pages, the more ranking challenged your site is going to be. I personally believe the more unique pages you have on a topic, as a total percentage of indexed pages, the more authorative your site is considered on that topic. Losing these "unique" aspects can, again, play a role in a reduced value of a link to those you're linking to. Again, this will have a direct impact of that partner sites ability to rank.

    The last thing I have noticed, is some webmasters may not be keeping track of "bad neighborhood" links (You know, link partner do turn to the dark side...lol) and are frankly, just linking to anything without consideration to the above, and/or lack of serious follow up and baby sitting of back links. "It's ok, I got the links, so I don't need to worry about link partners and what they're doing" mentality. This is definitely one advantage to having one way links. No baby sitting...OMG! I am sooooooooooo tired of baby sitting! LMBO!

    I think many may not be paying attention to whether the site they are ABOUT to link with is headed for trouble or already in trouble. Hey it's got PR, or lookie, its HIGH PR...owwwww... so it must be ok. Umm...no! This is highly foolish linking for PR at its best and you can bet it can, and most likely will, crimp your ranking style eventually.

    Finally, the above "de-index" activities will catch up to your site as these pages are ripped from the G index, whether link pages or content pages. Probably just when you're starting to rank well. So when you see that nasty drop, think about what is going on with "my site" first i.e. site:www.mysite.com then think about what is going on with the sites I am counting on for back links. i.e. site:www.yoursite.com. You need to do serious reviews on your back links, whether these link from pages are still in the google index and what is going on with that site you're linking to.

    So, while a rotating index change sounds good, I belive it's just more wmw speculation with no basis. IMHO, comes right down to the basics and what google is doing at that moment. How are pages indexed Vs. the total number of recognized site pages by Google and whats going on with the page that contain your back links. As in, where are they originating from and what is happening to the sites that have links pointing to my site.

    If you find your site is all good, and you're not seeing any of these things, and you were ranking tops and during an update you see a drop in your rankings when you shouldn't have, the signs say you need to take a very hard look.

    So, there's my two cents on this matter.

    Cheerios


    Originally Posted by dazzlindonna
    Strait, a number of people here (but mostly on WMW) are seeing an update happening over the last few days. A lot of people, however, see no changes at all. Apparently, something is going on, but it hasn't yet affected a broad range of terms. Here's my guess. As each new update happens, another segment is affected. September affected segment A, December affected segment B, February affected segment C, March affected segment D, and May is affecting segment E. I don't know what the criteria is for which segments are chosen, but the same outcome is happening to a select group of sites each time, but the groups are different. My next guess is that Google is unable or unwilling to apply the update to the entire index, so it is doing it piecemeal every 45-55 days or so. Each time it happens, a group of people feel the heat, while a large group does not. Eventually, over the next few months, everyone (nearly) will have gone through the fire.

    Added: one of my sites felt the heat in December. one felt it in February. The december site rebounded (but not completely) in February. The february site is still lost in outer space.

    Comments on this post

    • Wit agrees : Nice analysis GC, but also don't rule out speculation just because it's from WMW (is it really?) ;)
    • Gr8ted3s agrees : Rambling on as usual GC ;) Good post, interesting ideas.
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    It is sad when people loose their rankings. I also experience some recent fall; perhaps, it is done only because not all Google's data centers have yet been updated.
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    Actually, my theory has nothing to do with WMW or what anyone there thinks. I mentioned WMW only because a lot of people there are noticing the recent changes, whereas a lot fewer are noticing it here. And no doubt, gchaney, your theory is every bit as good a theory as anyone's. In fact, I've advised quite a few people during the last few updates to look for any links they might have that might be pointing at bad neighborhoods. This was one of the things I did when I took a hit in December. The site came back (mostly) later, but I'll of course never know if removing suspected links was the cause of the return or not. Regardless of whether or not either of our theories is anywhere close to the truth, your advice, gchaney, is very good - and hopefully people will pay attention.
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    mick.sawyer
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    Phew,,

    When i see posts like this about people losing ranking it makes me feel better about being a bottom feeding scraping scumbag black hat.
    I have had to odd site fall into the bowels of google but i think it my be a blip.
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    Strangely, I didn't drop in the SERPS this time just to be replaced by competitors.

    Some of my search terms are so niche' that no one else is competing for those terms.

    One of my sites disappeared from several hundred keyword SERPS for which competition is minimal.

    My pages are still in the index, technically. They just don't show up for any searches.

    And... of course... the site is still PR6.

    Thanks Google!
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