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    Google and spam techniques, m really shocked ..


    Hi,

    I am new to this Forum!

    I was just checking out some websites and found a website thatís doing totally spam techniques but ranks quite well, very strange for me Ö I am really wondering if Google is still not that much sharp to detect all these type of techniques Ö. the website has many duplicate sister sites and all of them link to the main website Ö the website is premierdoorhandles.co.uk

    Few of the duplicate sister websites i found are:

    chromedoorhandles.org.uk
    interiordoorhandles.org.uk
    door-handles.org.uk
    stainlesssteeldoorhandles.org.uk
    doorclosers.org.uk
    brassdoorhandles.org.uk
    door-knobs.org.uk
    doorhinges.org.uk
    premierdoorhandles.carlislebrass.org.uk
    doorhandlescompany.org.uk
    handles4doors.org.uk
    designerdoorhandles.org.uk
    doorhandlesworld.co.uk
    cheapdoorhandles.org.uk
    doorhandlesdirect.org.uk
    doorhandlesonline.org.uk

    etc

    What do you think about this technique? Donít you think Google has to be smarter?
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    Google "needs" to be smarter - but alas, sometimes things fall through the cracks.

    The problem with such a strategy is that you have to build links to the satellite (or sister) domains in order for them to have any value to pass. The links would be worth more to you if they were sent directly to the main site.

    The only reason such a strategy should exist is if someone is using techniques that have been known to get a site banned. That way, if they overdo it, and get a site banned, it is the sister site that gets banned first, not the main site (granted it wouldn't be hard to identify the main site, so it could likely fall just the same, but that's assuming the person handling the spam report actually digs deeper).

    I wouldn't go on such a route - there are better ways of doing things out there. Just because you see someone get away with it doesn't mean it's a good idea for you to employ also.

    Comments on this post

    • EGOL agrees
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    Well it's working for them, they rank number 1 in google.co.uk for door handles.

    All the satellite sites have different class-c ip addresses, different whois details (most of them faked I assume), that's all done reasonably well.. the poor part is that the satellite sites are all of the same template, but it doesn't seem to have been busted as the domains are all indexed in google and show some toolbar PR.

    Comments on this post

    • EGOL agrees
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    Originally Posted by channel5
    Well it's working for them, they rank number 1 in google.co.uk for door handles.
    Right. But does that mean it's a good idea to try the same?

    Not a challenge, just asking your opinion. What would you do?
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    These domains might contribute zero to the rankings. Just because they are out there does not mean that they are helpful.

    I hope that all of my competitors run out and make duplicate sites like this. Will keep them busy, cost them some money... and while they are farting around I will get some good content up.

    Comments on this post

    • lewisdb agrees
    * "It's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain
    * "Free advice isn't worth much. Cheap advice is worth even less." EGOL
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    Originally Posted by channel5
    All the satellite sites have different class-c ip addresses, different whois details
    they have same server (except the main website) called "ns1913.hostgator.com" as per whois search

    whois-search.com/whois/handles4doors.org.uk
    whois-search.com/whois/doorhandlesonline.org.uk
    whois-search.com/whois/doorhandlesdirect.org.uk

    Originally Posted by channel5
    (most of them faked I assume)
    What do you mean by faked ? Do you mean these have bee created by a third party sources ?

    Originally Posted by channel5
    but it doesn't seem to have been busted as the domains are all indexed in google and show some toolbar PR
    couldn't the "index" and that some "toolbar PR" be because of the linking they have done among the websites like you see on this page door-handles.org.uk and some other link building efforts ? indexing a website and getting some PR isnt that much hard, a little bit efforts are needed to do it.

    Could you please make your view a bit more clear if you are in favor of this technique or against this ? Thanks!
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  13. from the horses mouth
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    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    they have same server (except the main website) called "ns1913.hostgator.com" as per whois search

    whois-search.com/whois/handles4doors.org.uk
    whois-search.com/whois/doorhandlesonline.org.uk
    whois-search.com/whois/doorhandlesdirect.org.uk
    OK, those 3 are hosted on the same server (though ns1913.hostgator.com is their name server, not their hosting server). I tested 4 at random and they were all hosted on unique class c's.


    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    What do you mean by faked ? Do you mean these have bee created by a third party sources ?
    No, just when they were registered the person registering made up some fake contact details for domain ownership, so they look like they are owned by a number of people and not the same person.

    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    couldn't the "index" and that some "toolbar PR" be because of the linking they have done among the websites like you see on this page door-handles.org.uk and some other link building efforts ? indexing a website and getting some PR isnt that much hard, a little bit efforts are needed to do it.
    The fact they are indexed means that Google hasn't flagged them as being spam (or at least not too spammy to ban).

    If you look at the backlink profile of the satellite domains you will see they have done external backlinking campaign for them, from an external link network that they don't own.

    It's a classic manipulation technique.. you build a bunch of on topic feeder sites and build shady links to them from external networks (which are much less on topic), and then link from these to your "money" website, the one that makes your revenue and which you want to protect.

    The aim is if Google rumbles it, they will likely kill the feeder sites but you hope the money site is far enough removed not to be hurt.

    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    Could you please make your view a bit more clear if you are in favor of this technique or against this ? Thanks!
    I don't take moral positions, I've experimented with all sorts of techniques in my time to see what does and doesn't work.

    This technique is obviously working in this case for the sites in question on the terms they are after, however what isn't so good is that it's been implemented in a way that you've easily picked up and it's getting discussed in an open forum which is bad news for the people who've set it up.

    You can draw your own conclusions.
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    Originally Posted by channel5
    OK, those 3 are hosted on the same server (though ns1913.hostgator.com is their name server, not their hosting server). I tested 4 at random and they were all hosted on unique class c's.




    No, just when they were registered the person registering made up some fake contact details for domain ownership, so they look like they are owned by a number of people and not the same person.



    The fact they are indexed means that Google hasn't flagged them as being spam (or at least not too spammy to ban).

    If you look at the backlink profile of the satellite domains you will see they have done external backlinking campaign for them, from an external link network that they don't own.

    It's a classic manipulation technique.. you build a bunch of on topic feeder sites and build shady links to them from external networks (which are much less on topic), and then link from these to your "money" website, the one that makes your revenue and which you want to protect.

    The aim is if Google rumbles it, they will likely kill the feeder sites but you hope the money site is far enough removed not to be hurt.



    I don't take moral positions, I've experimented with all sorts of techniques in my time to see what does and doesn't work.

    This technique is obviously working in this case for the sites in question on the terms they are after, however what isn't so good is that it's been implemented in a way that you've easily picked up and it's getting discussed in an open forum which is bad news for the people who've set it up.

    You can draw your own conclusions.
    Well, lets see others people views on it now ..... what do you think about their footer which is stuffed with keywords on their home page premierdoorhandles.co.uk?

    this sounds quite unfair to me and it seems that they are manipulating the search engines

    Comments on this post

    • lewisdb agrees : Life isn't fair, especially where large sums of money are involved!
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    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    Well, lets see others people views on it now ..... what do you think about their footer which is stuffed with keywords on their home page premierdoorhandles.co.uk?

    this sounds quite unfair to me and it seems that they are manipulating the search engines
    Re read the post. There is no doubt they are trying (and succeeding) to manipulate the search engines. The only real question is how long will it last?

    The truth is manipulation isn't a bad thing if you go into it with your eyes wide open and you fully understand the risk involved.

    My advice would be to seriously consider not doing so if your site is in any way important to you. I work in a number of affiliate markets where people throw sites up over night and do just about anything going to rank them. As long as the site returns a profit that's all that counts. Manipulation for them is a way of life.

    I also work with a lot of people that have spent huge amounts of time and money developing their sites and those sites are their bread and butter. Harming these is not an option so manipulation (IMHO) is not the answer.

    Short version: It depends on your circumstances.

    Also I wouldn't consider doing this without an in depth understanding of what you are doing.

    Comments on this post

    • KernelPanic agrees : exactly
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    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    Could you please make your view a bit more clear if you are in favor of this technique or against this ? Thanks!
    When it comes to manipulating/assisting the SERPs I don't believe that it is an ethical issue. You are simply providing the 'Google computer' with what it needs (you need).

    Morally (I guess all will 'stand' slightly differently) the issues come when:

    1. You are deceiving the end user (you are trying to rank for 'football results' when your site is all about 'selling footballs' or porn, etc.)

    2. Your customer does not know the risks (if you are doing things that could get them penalised/could be discounted) or you could be damaging their brand (by spamming forums etc. with links)

    What do I think about the 'quality' of this one? I haven't actually looked yet - but it sounds like it may be working but that it may not have been done well (for example the same template?)

    My best guess is that this is your competitor?

    I wouldn't report them (you probably won't need to now anyway!) unless they were polluting the index with irrelevant targeting and spoiling user experience - but I know that there are people on here who definitely would.

    I would report them if I was losing out to them AND I was doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that was remotely 'black hat' (I hate that word!) even rubbish things like submitting to article sites for links, submitting to directories for links, Press Releases for links or buying links, etc.

    On a business level - I'd just outrank them.
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    If I was competing against them I would file a spam report in a NY minute

    Comments on this post

    • eddyf agrees : Absolutely I would file a spam report.
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    Originally Posted by GraceFan
    When it comes to manipulating/assisting the SERPs I don't believe that it is an ethical issue. You are simply providing the 'Google computer' with what it needs (you need).

    Morally (I guess all will 'stand' slightly differently) the issues come when:

    1. You are deceiving the end user (you are trying to rank for 'football results' when your site is all about 'selling footballs' or porn, etc.)

    2. Your customer does not know the risks (if you are doing things that could get them penalised/could be discounted) or you could be damaging their brand (by spamming forums etc. with links)

    What do I think about the 'quality' of this one? I haven't actually looked yet - but it sounds like it may be working but that it may not have been done well (for example the same template?)

    I wouldn't report them (you probably won't need to now anyway!) unless they were polluting the index with irrelevant targeting and spoiling user experience - but I know that there are people on here who definitely would.

    I would report them if I was losing out to them AND I was doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that was remotely 'black hat' (I hate that word!) even rubbish things like submitting to article sites for links, submitting to directories for links, Press Releases for links or buying links, etc.

    On a business level - I'd just outrank them.
    GraceFan, I dont know much about all this, may be you are right or may be not but what i have so far read about legal SEO is that these type of techniques are illegal and shouldn't be done as per Google guidelines

    Originally Posted by GraceFan
    My best guess is that this is your competitor?
    Not really, i have a DIY related website but we sell totally different products .... I got a link exchange request with these guys, when I looked at to their website it was doing very well in the SERP, when I checked out their back links through Yahoo I found all the same template websites and got shocked about this technique
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    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    GraceFan, I dont know much about all this, may be you are right or may be not but what i have so far read about legal SEO is that these type of techniques are illegal and shouldn't be done as per Google guidelines
    Nothing they are doing is against the law. It might be against google terms of service but they are two very separate things.

    Comments on this post

    • GraceFan agrees
    • channel5 agrees : there's nothing against the law going on
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    Originally Posted by Ryan_ch
    GraceFan, I dont know much about all this, may be you are right or may be not but what i have so far read about legal SEO is that these type of techniques are illegal and shouldn't be done as per Google guidelines
    You are right (apart from the word 'legal' but I know what you mean).

    This stuff is pretty much certainly against the 'Google Guidelines' - assuming that it is them who are doing it... but that is another story altogether!

    Google guidelines are not law, they are the requirements made up by a website/company to help themselves. If you want to stay 'safe' (and potentially poor - unless you are EGOL) - stay within them.
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    Originally Posted by lewisdb
    Nothing they are doing is against the law. It might be against google terms of service but they are two very separate things.
    YES i am talking about Google terms of service not LOW basically
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