Thread: Google Clicks

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  • Jump to page:
    #1
  1. No Profile Picture
    Registered User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1
    Rep Power
    0

    Google Clicks


    Hi everybody,
    does anybody know if the number that users clicks on a web from a Google search improves the position of that web????
    I have read an interview of Google´s responsible in Spain (www.plus.es/codigo/noticias/ficha_noticia.asp?id=301566) and he says that Google uses the number of clics to order the results list, but I have never heard that before.

    David Llanos
    Last edited by dllasan; Dec 22nd, 2004 at 10:01 AM.
  2. #2
  3. No Profile Picture
    SEO Chat Skiller (1500 - 1999 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    St. James Gate
    Posts
    1,988
    Rep Power
    18
    No they do not as there would be two issues:

    1.) The strong only get stronger and you could never breach the first page
    2.) The possibilities for manipulation are endless
  4. #3
  5. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    49
    Rep Power
    15
    I am quite sure google tracking you click the website form the SERPs, but not sure it can help ranking.

    But let think it, google tracking user click the website, it should remember user with cookie, ip or something else.
  6. #4
  7. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    423
    Rep Power
    16

    ...


    Google does track click thrus, but does not use this information for ranking purposes.

    This topic is covered in the Stanford documents that form the basis for Google:
    http://web.archive.org/web/19980502040509/google.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html

    Don't waste your time barking up this tree. Click thrus aren't going to make a site rank better.


    Also, on a side note, don't post that you read an article in which so and so said this and that if you can't cite the article as a source.

    Anyone can post here saying that Google's owner says that their dog determines rankings for all search terms, but the proof is in the pudding. Let's at lease try to be responsible and academic about this stuff. This is how false rumors get spread.
  8. #5
  9. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    132
    Rep Power
    15
    I wish I knew the recipe for the pudding!!
  10. #6
  11. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    62
    Rep Power
    16
    The clicks would help Google checks if the results are relevant.
  12. #7
  13. America fights back
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    203
    Rep Power
    16
    In the Adwords terms for ranking, the click-thru counts, so don't get that confused with organic listings.
  14. #8
  15. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Texas!
    Posts
    1,137
    Rep Power
    47
    The clicks would help Google checks if the results are relevant.
    The algorithm does this. Clicks were once used by Altavista and several other engines at one time. They were discussed in length at that time, and ultimately found if you clicked everyday once a minute for 2 weeks, it would only increase rankings like 2-3. But that was then with a defunct engine.

    For google, they use this data for internal purposes I imagine. Its some of the best raw data you can get. Imagine knowing which keywords resulted in more adwords revenue and those that don't. However it not for ranking adjustments. Its for making decisions.
  16. #9
  17. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    166
    Rep Power
    16
    I believe its possible that G uses click through to determine ranking but not in a way you can simply spam by building a bot to fake click throughs. I am not saying they do, just from what I have seen it would not surprise me.

    Here are things we know about G:
    1. They have developed fairly advanced click through spam detection (for AdWords)
    2. They sometimes monitor organic clicks with JavaScript onMouseDown events
    3. They have developed an advanced relevancy algo that utilizes click throughs (for AdWords)

    For a year or so I have noticed an interesting phenomenon. We have a fairly competitive term that we have ranked in the 20's for over a year. When I look at the exact query parameters (from the referrer URL tracked in our stats package) to view the SERP that was clicked, 90% plus are from our usual position in the 20's. However a small percentage are from the first or second page, meaning that we were on the first or second page at some point that day. The odd thing, is when I click the exact referrer URL, I never see our listing on that page (vs. click where our listing is on the 3rd page).

    I think there are only two reasons for this behavior, errant changes in the G algo (this in not typical everflux, it happens virtuall every day for a small percentage of searches) or they implement an experiment algo that purposefully rearranges the listings and test if certain listings get click more often (vs. the statistical drop off curve by SERP position).

    If such experiments are used, they would be great ways to determine relevancy and using a psudo-random sample coupled with click-through spam detection, you could very effectively prevent spamming via automated or other types of false clicks.

    Again, I am not saying that G definitely does this type of click-through analysis. All I am saying is I think it's plausible.
    Last edited by tomdude48; Dec 22nd, 2004 at 08:35 PM.
  18. #10
  19. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    423
    Rep Power
    16

    ...


    I'm afraid that it is simply not plausible IMO...

    Not only is it not plausible, but it goes against the entire idea of Pagerank and citation ranking.

    The point of Google (according to their charter document that I alluded to earlier) is to rank webpages based on citations (links) and content factors.

    Factoring click throughs would be counterproductive and would go against their own ideals.

    Take a moment to read the document that I alluded to earlier. They go into detail, explaining why click thrus are not a feasible ranking factor.

    And again...don't spend too much time contemplating this topic. It's not going to help you improve your rankings...
  20. #11
  21. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    166
    Rep Power
    16
    Ah, a friendly debate. hugoguzman, this is how I see it;

    I am not sure why it's not plausable. All the the requiered technologies have already been developed by G. I have designed many user behaivor analysis algos over the years and that type of data is vital to accurate modeling. IMO to have access to that data and not use it to improve rankings would be implausable.

    Also, IMO just because something is not in their original thesis doesn't mean it is not apart of the algo now. I would bet their are dozens if not hundreds of factors in the algo now that were not apart of the original vision. Bill Gates one time thought that no computer could ever use more then 640K of RAM, funny how a few years of experience, competition and billions of dollars change people's vision. We were all a lot more idealistic in school.

    Also, if G is philosophically against click throughs to determine relevancy, why is it a integral part of the AdWords algo. Click throughs are the core of how AdWords determines relevancy.

    I will admit I could not find where in the Stanford doc they dismiss the idea of click-throughs. (can you tell me what section it is). I did find the 4.5.2 Feedback section where they talk about getting user feedback and changing the rankings based on that feedback and comparing the original rankings to the new ones. All I am proposing is that instead of doing a survey, they might be conducting their own automated survey with experimental rankings.

    One thing I do agree with you on is that there is not much point in worrying about it b/c there is nothing you can do to help your rankings via click throughs (except write better descriptions that entice people to click on your listing when they are in experiment mode).

    I only contemplating the topic because I find it theoretically interesting, the curse of being an engineer I guess. If it is happening, it is not much use for SEO.
    Last edited by tomdude48; Dec 23rd, 2004 at 12:04 AM.
  22. #12
  23. B afraid.. B very afraid!
    SEO Chat Mastermind (5000+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Land of enchantment... deserts of the Southwest
    Posts
    9,697
    Rep Power
    2402
    Hey guys, not that I believe it, what if G has a "Click-thru Tip-point"? Meaning: on super competitive kw's, what if G uses clicks as the deciding factor in those instances where there is major traffic for a keyword and there is no clear winner for the #1, 2, and 3 slots. Make sense then? Plausible, feasible, and reasonable?
    ...Never mistake activity for achievement...

    ...Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it....
    Benjamin Franklin
  24. #13
  25. No Profile Picture
    Registered User
    SEO Chat Explorer (0 - 99 posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    15
    Rep Power
    0
    Originally Posted by Sam Tang
    I am quite sure google tracking you click the website form the SERPs, but not sure it can help ranking.

    But let think it, google tracking user click the website, it should remember user with cookie, ip or something else.
    Only sometimes will google throw a tracking url infront of a search result. I believe they do it as internal statistics in determining the habits of a user. You must also realise that Google is very much an advertising company these days. That's what their stock holders care about.
  26. #14
  27. Banned
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Vancouver, Calgary , Ontario
    Posts
    259
    Rep Power
    0
    Originally Posted by SEO_AM
    Hey guys, not that I believe it, what if G has a "Click-thru Tip-point"?
    Possible.... I would agree I think they all might be doing this to some point I had a phrase burried on page three of G but amazingly enough people don't like the first two pages of spam G reports for the phrase and suddenly without adding links the next month I was on the first page for the term
  28. #15
  29. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    423
    Rep Power
    16

    ...


    Originally Posted by SEO_AM
    Hey guys, not that I believe it, what if G has a "Click-thru Tip-point"? Meaning: on super competitive kw's, what if G uses clicks as the deciding factor in those instances where there is major traffic for a keyword and there is no clear winner for the #1, 2, and 3 slots. Make sense then? Plausible, feasible, and reasonable?
    I work in an extremely competitive market for very large sites (Alexa top 150 and better). Traffic does not determine rankings in this industry.

    Content pages, internal linking structure, lots of potent and relevant backlinks, and moderately optimized written content and html (metatags, etc...) do the trick...

    If traffic was factored in any way, it would be virtually impossible for a "new kid on the block" website to overtake the established authority sites for a particular industry.

    With pagerank, there's no such thing as "no clear winner". The algorithm assigns a virtually unique "rank" to each and every page in their index. The mathematical nature of their search engine ensures a clear winner (and #2, #3, etc...) every time.
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  • Jump to page:

Similar Threads

  1. Google Wins Users’ Hearts, but Not Their Ad Clicks
    By stinkoman in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Nov 23rd, 2004, 04:29 PM
  2. Fooling Google
    By Victor in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Jul 29th, 2004, 11:10 AM
  3. Let's face it: Google is incompetent
    By Kackle in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Nov 30th, 2003, 01:35 PM

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo