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    Google cheats and GoogleGuy lies


    In a 2002-05-31 thread on WmW, GoogleGuy said:

    "This is a fun discussion, but Doofus and Mikael, you should know that we would never hand boost a result. My own mother couldn't get a boost in the rankings. And don't think she hasn't tried."

    From my toolbar on 2004-01-06:

    http://www.google.com/answers/testimonials.html
    PR = 9, Backlinks = 11

    http://www.google.com/services/
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 319

    http://www.google.com/domainpark/
    PR = 8, Backlinks = 4

    http://www.google.com/services/sponsored_links.html
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 16

    http://www.google.com/appliance/
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 200

    http://www.google.com/press/index.html
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 203

    http://www.google.com/press/testimonials.html
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 207

    http://www.google.com/contact/success.html
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 64

    http://www.google.com/contact/newsletter.html
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 97

    http://www.google.com/privacy.html
    PR = 10, Backlinks = 96

    And on, and on, and on....


    Here are some of Yahoo's pages, for comparison:

    http://www.yahoo.com/
    PageRank = 9, Backlinks = 774,000

    http://finance.yahoo.com/
    PageRank = 8, Backlinks = 140,000

    http://mail.yahoo.com/
    PageRank = 9, Backlinks = 51,500

    http://help.yahoo.com/help/shop/
    PageRank = 8, Backlinks = 20,400

    http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/
    PageRank = 9, Backlinks = 492,000

    http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/cookies/details.html
    PageRank = 8, Backlinks = 224

    http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/privacy/
    PageRank = 8, Backlinks = 310

    http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
    PageRank = 8, Backlinks = 8,600

    http://messenger.yahoo.com/
    PageRank = 9, Backlinks = 33,900

    What's wrong with this picture?

    Oh, I almost forgot to quote from http://www.google.com/technology/ (PageRank = 10, Backlinks = 596):

    Integrity: Google's complex, automated methods make human tampering with our results extremely difficult. And though we do run relevant ads above and next to our results, Google does not sell placement within the results themselves (i.e., no one can buy a higher PageRank). A Google search is an easy, honest and objective way to find high-quality websites with information relevant to your search.
    (Excuse me, I need to barf now.)
    Last edited by Kackle; Jan 6th, 2004 at 11:22 PM.
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    cbp
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    ... and the lie is?

    I kept reading your message waiting for the punch line ...

    The PR10 to those Google pages with not a lot of links is because the links are from high PR sites (mostly internal Google ones)... thats not rocket science to figure out.
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    No, it is clearly rigged.

    I have for years complained that the social power law skew was bad enough, in that all other things being equal, you need about six times as many external links to pass from one toolbar number to the next highest number.

    Then I have for an equal number of years complained that the social power law was doubly skewed by Google, in that Google gives extra juice to exactly those sites near the top of the heap that don't need it -- the 10 to 20 percent of the sites that already get 80 to 90 percent of all traffic, according to the social power law.

    But never, in my wildest dreams, did I suspect that the amount of juice from a couple dozen high PR sites would confer what I can only describe as outrageous amount of juice. It is clearly rigged in Google's favor. It's a hand tweak for public relations purposes. You go to one of their internal pages, and see that green line slammed all the way across, and you think that it's one of the top pages on the web.

    It's a scandal. It's false advertising. It deceives consumers. It's cheating. Anyone who doubts that Google would maliciously warp the ecommerce rankings to make more money prior to an IPO need only look at all those manipulated PageRanks on Google's inside pages.
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    I think that they also have a secret hanger in each datacenter for the black helicopters.
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    I cant see anything wrong with this.
    Google.com has 323,000 backlinks.
    http://www.google.com/services/ is linked from the index page, so its going to get atleast PR9, and there are only about 10 internal links, none outgoing. It also has 319 backlinks.
    PR10 is quite natural.

    Now go to the yahoo.com, and look how many links are in the index page, alot more (264 links)
    Last edited by bbb; Jan 7th, 2004 at 06:57 AM.
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    Google, with 323,000 backlinks to their main site, starts out with a PR 10.

    Yahoo, with twice as many, starts out with a PR 9. Assuming a mid-10 and a mid-9, Google would normally need six times as many backlinks as Yahoo, not half as many.

    "I can't see anything wrong with this," you say.

    Holy smoke, I cannot believe you said this. Yes, the services page is linked from the home page. But the privacy page is hard to find, and that has a PR of 10 also.

    Okay, here's an explanation you can use that will be accepted by your Google-cult friends. All of Yahoo's links come from webpages built by coal miners in Kentucky, and even though they need a PR of 4 to show up in Yahoo's backlink count, they're all a low 4, and Google considers them unimportant. Google's links, on the other hand, although half in number, all come from Wall Street investment banks, and Google considers them much more important. They all look like a 9 to Google. Okay, fine.

    OR...

    Google had to seed the PageRank calculation by starting with the most important site on the web. They decided that this was www.google.com, and worked down from there.

    OR...

    Google is blatantly corrupt. PageRank corrupts, and absolute PageRank corrupts absolutely.

    And then once you get past the problem of the initial PageRank for the main sites of Yahoo and Google, you have to explain why Google's PR of 10 transfers so well to subpages. I have never seen such lossless transfer of PageRank from a home page to deeper pages on any site I've ever studied. Instead, it's always been a struggle to transfer one's hard-earned home page PR to deeper pages.
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    Kackle, I think that you need to start investigating the JFK assasination. Lots of plots to uncover there. Although there may be some truth to your theory, who cares. If I made a tool bar and a PR formula, you can bet my site would rank an 11 out of 10.
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    Who cares... If I were Google I'd give all of my pages PR10s... It's their company. They can do as they please.
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    In the U.S., the Federal Trade Commission cares. There are laws against false or misleading advertising. PageRank is touted as an objective measurement of page importance on the web. If the dice are loaded, Google is obligated to disclose this.

    Google has a blurb and link about how to complain to the FTC on their no-popup page. The same link will do nicely to complain about Google's manipulation of PageRank.
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    Google is not 'obligated' to do anything... That tinfoil hat might be cutting off the circulation to your brain.
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    IMO, Google Guy is some *sshole who pretends to know what's going on, but is probably some desk jockey who gets a kick out of misleading people...I don't take anything he says seriously anymore.

    It would seem to me that Google could get into trouble if one of its staff members is leaking information at WmW...

    And if it is legal, it still is a waste of their time...

    Screw Google Guy and do your own analysis and research, it's probably better than anything he could do...
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    "Screw Google Guy and do your own analysis and research, it's probably better than anything he could do..."

    Agreed. GG is a waste of time and only some PR (public relations) Google setup with WmW.

    Kackle why so hellbent on Google??? There are far more corrupt and deceitful companies out there. Microsoft, GAIN/Gator, Verisign to name a few that only strive for profit and extremely poor customer service. Google doesn't owe anyone anything. Maybe when the IPO comes they will but for now nothing.

    I agree Google has pissed off alot of people but it's their company and their services are free. It's like yelling at a free newspaper that your free ad isn't big enough or even free enough.

    -PK
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    I do know that GG is most definitely not some 'desk jockey' ;-)
    Of course he puts a spin on just about everything he writes and says nothing that isnt the obvious anyway. He really is a PR guy who has Googles interest at the top. He is however very powerful in the company and very real.
    What is a website without traffic?
    ABAKUS Internet Marketing
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    You people need to stop giving google's balls a saliva coating. Those of you saying "who cares they don't owe us anything" or "it's there company they can do as they please" are fooling yourselves.

    The fact is, google has put themselves in a position to effect the public on a greater scale then other company. With this comes an ethnical responsibility that any company in this situation must adhere to. It comes with a responsibility to be fair and balanced in dealing with that public, and to be unbiased in the results they provide.

    On the flip side, I'm not sure why kackle is making a big deal out of this. Google has already admitted to manually adjusting pagerank scores in the searchking lawsuite. This happened some time ago.
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    "I'm sick of you all giving google's balls a saliva coating. "

    I'm taking myself out of a SEO headset and thinking from a users perspective. The only people Google will effect is SEOs and site owners. No one else. Maybe I might be "giving google's balls a saliva coating" but I'm not b*tching everytime Google's takes a sh*t like some.

    "Google has already admitted to manually adjusting pagerank scores in the searchking lawsuite"

    It's called a ban and preventing PR transfer not adjusting. If a customer steals from your store would you let them back in???

    -PK
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