Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  • Jump to page:
    #1
  1. Savior of the Whales
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1,424
    Rep Power
    147

    Yahoo vs Google Case Study


    Why don't we try figuring out an answer to something specific which some people here may happen to know a lot about which would also be helpful to many to learn how to deal with YAHOO ... i think this will be helpful for those of us (LIKE ME) who are having trouble finding any kind of consistency in the serps at yahoo .... and how to clinch a spot there .... i have a lot of nice spots there ... but honeslty, i dont know why we got the ones we did and why we did not get the ones we did not .... maybe others have the same problem ....

    lets take two sites as examples --- for a case study .... one complex, one simple for comparison ....


    site 1) seochat.com it is # 17 for its target KW "search engine optimization" at google ... but a NO SHOW in the top 100 at Yahoo .... ( for comparison purposes - seoinc.com who is #1 at google is #59 at yahoo - the only common entry in the top 10 at both sites is submittoday.com/)

    case study objective ... why is seo chat not in the top 100 at YAHOO for this kw?? there is a lot of issues to analize to reach this answer as this is a complex site .... so here is an easy to analize case study for those with a shorter attention span ... or less time to invest ... something can surely be learned from answering either question ...

    ALSO ... why does google show 3.3 million pages for this search and yahoo shows 7.7 million pages
    ( does yahoo have TWICE as many indexed pages or do they count differently??)
    site 2) www.just-say-no-to-yahoo.com -- it is #1 for its target kw "search engine greed" at google ... and a NO SHOW in the top 100 at Yahoo ( for comparison purposes a webmaster world forum page - /forum16/507.htm ranks #5 at google and then gets #1 at yahoo) ....

    case study objective .... why is just-say-no-to-yahoo not in the top 100 at yahoo for this kw?? while we are at it ... maybe we can determine why yahoo shows 468,000 results for this kw search compared to 74,000 for google??(does yahoo have nearly SEVEN TIMES as many page in their index??)



    Any answers here??
    *** Search Engine News, Jesus helps JOE BOB SEO save the whales. ***
  2. #2
  3. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    283
    Rep Power
    16
    good question JB. Just guessing here, but I would think that Yahoo has not even settled into their new scheme yet. Ranking all of the sites they have indexed is going to take a while. I am sure they are also tweaking things over there that are going to ensure the SERP's are all over the place
  4. #3
  5. hctibselgoogtonmai
    SEO Chat Skiller (1500 - 1999 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,919
    Rep Power
    67
    Great Question! Using the Yahoo vs. Google comparison tool very few pages rank anywhere close to each-other in the respectives SE's. Even if one were to attempt to build seperately optimized pages for specific keywords in the respective search engines without this type of inquiry wouldn't it be akin' to fishing with a naked hook?

    How would you go about tackling such a project and wouldn't you have to include other similarly targeted pages to have any reliability?
    Last edited by FogHorn; Apr 22nd, 2004 at 07:55 PM.
    My Favorite Tools: Web CEO - Ranking Reports, Keyword Research, Link Analysis | Hosting.com - U.S. Windows Hosting | ISAPI Rewrite - Rewrite & Redirect for Windows
  6. #4
  7. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    340
    Rep Power
    0
    Inktomi was always big with the meta tags particularly the Title. During the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2003 they seemed to be shifting more to checking the title, description, and keywords for the exact phrase. I never entirely figured it out because I derived enough traffic from AV, ATW, and Yahoo at that time. Interestingly when you used Ink PFI then you were just being ranked for combinations and re-combinations of the meta keywords. It was a win, win, situation I profited on for quite a few years. If you joined PFI you had to do little optimization.

    One of the basics I learned years ago is always put that Title tag first on a page. It will cost you rankings in some search engines. Plus I went through so many of the early years with frames I don’t touch them anymore.

    I think Yahoo is going after duplicate content and interlinking so aggressively that there will be no consistency.

    Oh, by the way I think of Yahoo as just a refurbished Ink. The results I have sit in the same exact place with Yahoo, Ink, ATW, AV, and Lycos.
    Last edited by outland88; Apr 22nd, 2004 at 10:38 PM.
  8. #5
  9. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,179
    Rep Power
    17
    JeoBob, good suggestion. But it's almost impossible without access to Google API and Yahoo API. I'm not aware of any Yahoo API.
  10. #6
  11. web designer
    SEO Chat Super Hero (2500 - 2999 posts)

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    designing a web site in columbus ohio
    Posts
    2,997
    Rep Power
    50
    i think one page can do well in google and yahoo.
    [no need for separate versions.]
  12. #7
  13. hctibselgoogtonmai
    SEO Chat Skiller (1500 - 1999 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,919
    Rep Power
    67
  14. #8
  15. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    283
    Rep Power
    16
    Not sure if this article has been posted here yet, but it has an interesting breakdown of Yahoo's new deal http://www.gorank.com/research/02192...f76961045f2c42
  16. #9
  17. Savior of the Whales
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1,424
    Rep Power
    147
    hey foghorn .... this is a good example of that tool having major errors .... it shows seoinc.com as #1 at yahoo ... when it is really # 59 ..... only one site in the top 10 is in common ....

    hi relax ... i agree, theoritically .... and in real life i have about 6 pages that do about the same at yahoo and google ... and 5 more which dont ... that is the problem i am having and others also ..... do you suppose seoinc knows why they are #59 at yahoo??

    Do you have any ideas why the sites in my example are not in the top 100 at yahoo??
  18. #10
  19. Contributing User
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    340
    Rep Power
    0
    As I was saying in an earlier post about Yahoo going after dupe content. I really think it's as agressive as just two sentences. I wonder if a larger site or well linked one can just place a paragraph from it's site in a back page and penalize the other site's page.

    http://www.savethewhales.org/about_whales.html

    http://www.just-say-no-to-yahoo.com

    Do we see some similarities.
    Last edited by outland88; Apr 24th, 2004 at 03:34 PM.
  20. #11
  21. Banned
    SEO Chat Discoverer (100 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    122
    Rep Power
    0
    JoeBob I think your website is great, but the fact is that Yahoo has a paid inclusion program and they have not hidden this fact... As far as labeling paid inclusion within the SERP's the FTC is looking into that and will come up with laws to regulate the inclusion of redirection listings to ADSENSE publishers websites. You know that this is the subject of http://www.webcenter.squarespace.com Your website mentions this situation and it is good that someone out there is looking at this issue also, I think that I will link to your site, since you raise some good issues.

    The problem that I see with what you are saying is this, Google is proclaiming in the press that their search results are completly separate from any influence of paid inclusion. If you look at the above link you will find that Google is in fact redirecting traffic to ADSENSE partners websites. You will also see links to the articles where Google executives CLAIM that their search results are pure.

    You say in your site that all search results should be free, I say that they should be fair, I say that Search Engines should at least be honest. If they say they have paid inslusion like Yahoo does so be it, at least the users know that some sites have paid for listings.

    But to go to the press every day like Google does, and make silly claims about how pure their organic search results are, when in fact they are filled with traffic redirection links to ADSENSE publishers, well that is a Joke, and simply a lie that Google keeps telling. Webmasters are some of the smartest folks around, maybe Google thinks they are smarter than Webmasters, but I do not think they are fooling anyone but themselves.

    So I think that instead of insisting on all listings be free and not PPC, insist that the SE's should at least be honest, if their SERP's are filled with redirection results they should be labeled as such....
    Last edited by anthonycea; Apr 30th, 2004 at 10:36 PM. Reason: spell
  22. #12
  23. Savior of the Whales
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1,424
    Rep Power
    147
    Hi anthonycea ...

    THEORITICALLY ... you are right ... if a user takes the time to read the informtion YOU AND I know is there ... they MIGHT understand that some serps are paid for ....

    but my point is that

    1) 95% of users DONT READ THAT at all....
    2) 75% of those that do read it dont understand it .....

    so .... actually i do agree with you .... the standard is they should be FAIR .... but in my opinion, the ONLY way to make them FAIR is to segregate the natural serps and paid ads and also make the IDENTIFICATION of them DRAMATIC and CLEAR .... so users MOSTLY understand the difference in paid ads and serps IN FACT and NOT JUST THEORITICALLY ... and so my conclusion is that including paid ads mixed in with the serps is IMPOSSIBLE to be fair ...

    My propoision is two fold ...

    a) paid results and naturan SERPS must be physically segregated .... you simply can not mix them like yahoo does ....
    b) after they are segregated .... they need to be MORE clerly identified ....

    this way even the (not to be rude) blissfully ignorant average internet user has a "fair" opportunity to understand the difference in the natural serps and the paid ads ....


    i am NOT communist ... so i am not against paying for ads in a general sense ... i spent a half million dollars advertising last year .... but i QUIT now to protest the SE's taking my doa and then bending me over at the same time .... instead of an honest advertising business, the se's are turning into something else ... and so that is why i want to help people reach their senses and QUIT paying the same people bending them over till they start acting FAIR and not like a street gang ....

    At first glance, i think your examples of those google serps to affiliates showing ad sense ads is OUTRAGEOUS ... i will study that further .... also, if you would like to email me an article about it .... i will post it there at my site ... or put a link to your study about .... i would like to have more examples of the SE's pulling the wool over the users eyes ....

    Also .... i am not in the camp of people who buy googles "we dont tamper with the results" lines ..... that is simply nonsense ..... they adjust their algo so the goolge and dmoz directory pages are all in the top 10 ... then when people scream they adjust them back to where the google /dmoz directory pages are on the 20 to 30 serp sections .... so they can say all they like they dont tamper with the resutls ... but in fact, they can manipulate the resu7lts however they like by manipulating the algo .... it is PURELY absurd for them to say they dont manipulate the results ....

    How is it that YAHOO directory results always show up AFTER google dmoz directory results in google, and at yahoo the yahoo directory alwasy shows up before the dmoz/google directory pages .... IF no one is "manipulating" the serps ..???

    but i will say this much .... in MY OPINION, google DONT manipulate the results as BLATENTLY as YAHOO does .... I have had sales people for yahoos search PPI tell me straight out, there was NO WAY we could get off yahoos BLACKLIST .... (which it APPEARS we got on after we cancelled our overture account) ..... unless we signed up for the new PPC deal ..... this is in my opinion a lot like running into a gang of thugs in an alley in east LA .....


    BTW ... outlander ... if you NOTICE the last line there on my page .... you will see there is a "CREDIT" stated for the source of that technical information AND ALSO A LINK to that source .... the link is not colored so maybe you did not notice it ....
  24. #13
  25. Contributing User
    SEO Chat High Scholar (3500 - 3999 posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    3,874
    Rep Power
    24
    they adjust their algo so the goolge and dmoz directory pages are all in the top 10


    i have quite a few sites in the top spots that are NOT in dmoz. sorry, i don't buy it.
  26. #14
  27. Savior of the Whales
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1,424
    Rep Power
    147
    ps ... outlander ... i have some sites with SUBSTANTIAL duplicate content doing fine at yahoo .... so maybe they are are SELECTIVELY penalizing dup content (or let me rephrase that ... maybe they use dup content as an excuse to black list sites they want to) .... but dup content is not consistently a problem as far as i can see ..... all i see at yahoo is INCONSISTENCY ....
  28. #15
  29. Savior of the Whales
    SEO Chat Good Citizen (1000 - 1499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1,424
    Rep Power
    147
    hey dazzlin .,.. i think you missed my point ....

    recall florida .... when gooogle/dmoz directory pages were in the top 10 serp spots themselves ....??? i am not talking about sites in those directories ....

    the directory pages themselves were in the top 10 spots after florida ... then they moved them back down now to page 3 mostly ....

    so that is my point ... they can put a page in any serp position they want to .... (liek their own directory page and the dmoz directory pages i used as examples) .... by manipulating their algo ....


    so just because it is a two step process to achieve the result ... the point is logic 101 ... they can easily manipulate any specific serp they want to by enginering the algo to produce the desired results ......

    just like they engineered the directory pages down from the top 10 to the 20 to 30 spots after there was so much complaining about them ....
    Last edited by JoeBob; May 2nd, 2004 at 01:01 AM.
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  • Jump to page:

Similar Threads

  1. Yahoo UK still using Google, how come.
    By Brad123 in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Feb 26th, 2004, 07:11 AM
  2. Replies: 12
    Last Post: Feb 9th, 2004, 09:43 AM
  3. Google Results Gone from Yahoo - Then Back
    By visitguernsey in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Feb 4th, 2004, 08:59 PM
  4. Yahoo and Google in Kahoots Theory!
    By jman in forum Google Optimization
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: Dec 1st, 2003, 09:54 AM

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo