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    Another ranking, how would you know?


    I am again disappointed. I gained another MSN ranking and no traffic. It baffles me greatly. I rank for a semi competitive phrase which msn ad labs keywords tool says gets about 8000 searches a month and the trend is rising. Overture says 3700 and I rank #2 yet not a click this whole month. What I am baffled about is that I rank for keywords that supposedly get no traffic(no search data) and yet get 5-10 hits a day. I know the search data is not accurate but I expected out of 8000 searches even accounting for the automated and manual queries that I would get atleast a couple hits

    How many of you rank for supposedly 'good keywords' yet get no traffic? As I said before I have MSN rankings that are for long-tail phrases that produce traffic yet this popular keyword doesn't send me any. Ohh well...
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    how about Wordtracker?
    i wonder if we should spend some money on adcenter or adwords to test the truly traffic from a keyword before we seo it.
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    EGOL
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    Are their killler PPC ads above you?

    Comments on this post

    • Visio agrees : Good point and I have seen this effect organic clicks however in this case I highly doubt it has much effect but maybe thats just my biased opinion :P
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    Originally Posted by EGOL
    Are their killler PPC ads above you?
    That's one reason here are a few more:

    1. Dogpile [wordtracker] is not MSN the suggested number is based on dogpile results X a perceived market share of MSN over Dogpile... notably if dogpile rates as 0.01% market share and MSN has 12% market share the results are [a single click in dogpile] would be 800,000% market share points in MSN... a single once only click in dogpile can bias margin of error results for years.

    2. Even Google based on it's exacting logs needs to make some assumptions in pooled analytics data. e.g. automatic tools making search queries and never a click - include all the API tools X that by SEOs for client reports & independent owners that alot of extra BS Data.

    3. An unproven plot... tools that are in a "paid for model" only get customers "IF" the tool produces enough bonafide data... it's easy enough to run a hit & miss on the most lucrative terms... course if most terms show a resulting peformance of "0" [as in a null based on not enough data to make a guess] deploying your querying bot to "hedge a bogus bet" is a good plan to offset the "lack of use on the chosen input"... it's better than admitting "our tool isn't overly helpful.

    4. Timing is everything - all markets thus all keywords have trends and none of the commercial tools track trends e.g. almost all sources have an increasing trend prior to Christmas and thus without a trend track and a bias of 800000% difference in market share [that's an assumption on my part I truly don't know what share dogpile has other than it is likely substantially less than 1% of global results] can be based on 1 click in early December that offset none in Jan. or Feb.

    5. Major search engines market share results are compiled globally yet regional archives do assume a fair share of this data... dogpile thus Wordtracker assumes the global stats that you will never universally receive.

    You have clearly identified why I haven't used any pre-visit tracking tool to determine where I invest my time.

    Your best tool is an actual small budget short term PPC campaign to determine keyword potential... it is overly obvious that your waste of time - costs you more than you really had to spend to be in error... and in the case of a bad keyword [that produces zero return] costs absolutely nothing.

    Comments on this post

    • Visio agrees : Thanks for the info. I 'knew' it before but reading it again makes it sink in again.
    Last edited by fathom; Feb 25th, 2007 at 02:34 AM.
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    Originally Posted by seonewbier
    how about Wordtracker?
    i wonder if we should spend some money on adcenter or adwords to test the truly traffic from a keyword before we seo it.
    I actually wasn't 'seoing' for it. I was working for keyword yada and I ranked for keyword yada yada if that makes any sense
    And yes wordtracker says it gets aobut 15 hits a day.

    Originally Posted by fathom
    That's one reason here are a few more:

    1. Dogpile [wordtracker] is not MSN the suggested number is based on dogpile results X a perceived market share of MSN over Dogpile... notably if dogpile rates as 0.01% market share and MSN has 12% market share the results are [a single click in dogpile] would be 800,000% market share points in MSN... a single once only click in dogpile can bias margin of error results for years.

    2. Even Google based on it's exacting logs needs to make some assumptions in pooled analytics data. e.g. automatic tools making search queries and never a click - include all the API tools X that by SEOs for client reports & independent owners that alot of extra BS Data.

    3. An unproven plot... tools that are in a "paid for model" only get customers "IF" the tool produces enough bonafide data... it's easy enough to run a hit & miss on the most lucrative terms... course if most terms show a resulting peformance of "0" [as in a null based on not enough data to make a guess] deploying your querying bot to "hedge a bogus bet" is a good plan to offset the "lack of use on the chosen input"... it's better than admitting "our tool isn't overly helpful.

    4. Timing is everything - all markets thus all keywords have trends and none of the commercial tools track trends e.g. almost all sources have an increasing trend prior to Christmas and thus without a trend track and a bias of 800000% difference in market share [that's an assumption on my part I truly don't know what share dogpile has other than it is likely substantially less than 1% of global results] can be based on 1 click in early December that offset none in Jan. or Feb.

    5. Major search engines market share results are compiled globally yet regional archives do assume a fair share of this data... dogpile thus Wordtracker assumes the global stats that you will never universally receive.

    You have clearly identified why I haven't used any pre-visit tracking tool to determine where I invest my time.

    Your best tool is an actual small budget short term PPC campaign to determine keyword potential... it is overly obvious that your waste of time - costs you more than you really had to spend to be in error... and in the case of a bad keyword [that produces zero return] costs absolutely nothing.
    Your right however I wasn't working at that keyword actually yet when I saw I was beginning to rank for it I was pretty happy until I found out it had no traffic. Your right about not using keyword tools to find traffic, atleast when it comes to MSN and Yahoo. However I never have this problem with Google.

    I guess when I see my MSN rankings rise from now on I will be even more careful not to get too excited. I have had this happen before but this is a large industry keyword.

    Thanks for the replies guys! And Egol no the ads atleast the time I checked were pretty poor. But maybe that was a bad day...
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    Visio it nice U even rank well in MSN; Here our website rank well in G & Y! but not in MSN. I am in tension, all are asking question why not in MSN, I have no reply for it.

    It hard no say I cant found my website in MSN by domain name also.

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